Zero degree bag shootout

Again, the Montbell #0 is $344 at http://www.modernmountainman.com/catalog.php?type=product&id=110133
Might make a difference in your decision.
If you are willing to "settle" for a 5F bag you can get the WM Versalite with a free 3oz overfill at Hermitshut.com for $400 and it weighs 2lbs 3oz. They also throw in a free pillow.
Best,
Sven

I find Montbell's temp ratings accurate for the 'average sleeper' — and I have read consistently that WM's ratings are conservative. WM's slightly heavier fill weight seems to bear this out — the Kodiak should be slightly warmer than rated.

All three are wonderful bags and it's hard to go wrong with any of them — but I think I would go for WM:

1. slightly warmer
2. slightly lighter
3. easier zipper

My one complaint — albeit minor — is that MB's zipper catches the fabric too often. My limited experience with WM is that their zippers are easier to operate.

For bigger / shorter folks, MB's super stretch and foot adjuster features can be very advantageous. But for you, probably not.

Montbell modified their zippers, to eliminate snagging, on their newer 800 fill down bags.

Good to know! As mentioned, the zipper is the one thing about MB bags (the 725 fp ones anyway) that's suboptimal — not a deal breaker by any means, but an annoyance sometimes.

Curious, do you know what was modified? Different zipper? Stiffer zipper guards / flaps? Are they now reasonably "snag free" — comparable to WM's?

Thanks for the info., Ben. Do you think the regular length would work for me? I am 5'10" and a stomach sleeper. What you you think? Thanks again!

I'd vote for sven's WM option if it were me.

Matthew,

The answer is "yes" — MB's regular size bags are sized for folks up to 5'10". Now if you totally straighten out your legs and point your toes like a ballerina, you will feel the bottom of the bag — but nobody sleeps that way. As a side sleeper, you probably bend your legs somewhat — so even less of a chance of pressing against the bottom of the bag.

Having voted for WM up above, I now "third" Sven's choice of the 10F Versalite plus overfill to boost warmth to 0F.

Given Matthew's physique, why not take advantage of the Versalite's slimmer cut and save a few ounces — even with overfill?

I'm 5'11" and made a regular MB bag work fine but I wouldn't if you were taller at all. My personal opinion is that the SS system is needless weight on the warm weather bags (#7 for example).

Comparing a WM highlite and a MB #7 I was definitely warmer in the WM bag at the same bag weight (16oz).

On a zero deg bag I think you'd get more use out of the SS system in terms of warmth since it will eliminate the dead air space but still allow you to boost the system with a insulated jacket/pants. That being said my deep winter bag is a -25deg WM bag. For a zero degree range bag I'll be trying a quilt this year.

My 800 fill SS DH #2 has 1 1/2" stiff zipper snag guards on both zipper halves. I don't have a WM bag to compare it to, but none of my BA, TNF, REI, or AD bags have this feature.

You guys are making me feel so good today …haha!
Cheers,
Sven

Richard — Thanks for the info.

Sven – Your hair does catch our attention. :)

Ben – Those braids are a pain in the *** every single morning.
:-)

Anything for the tall (6'5) that need about a 64" width?

WM Kodiak Super MF in either 6'6" or 7'0" with the dimensions of 67"/58"/41".
Best,
S.

I recently was on a trip with my friends who have Feathered Friends bags, and they complained about the zipper. My WM with the zipper tape was way smoother.

Theirs had Epic outers which resisted the heavy condensation excellently, my HermitsHut Versalite soaked it right up. Some people believe that Epic pores get plugged with ice crystals if they freeze, leading to worse condensation. Same for goretex tho. Dr. Jordan deliberately washed out his DWR on a new bag so it would be more breathable.

A jacket, balaclava, and extra pad increase the range of the Versalite, and you can push ALL the down to the top and sides (continuous tubes). It is a snug feeling with a parka on. The shell fabric must be quite breathable, you can see the down but so far no escapees. WM makes the heavier MicroFiber covered bags that supposedly make it less suceptible to windchill and so add temps while also adding durability. Personally, had to go with the light weight.

Right zips match more bivy bags.

Hey Paul, are you happy with the Versalite (w. overfill I guess?) I was thinking about getting it myself …
S.

Could the Versalite with 22 oz. of fill (2 of overfill) be as warm as the Montbell with 28 oz. of down? Since they are both now rated to 0 degrees or so (the WM with the overfill) and use the same fill power down, could the WM really be as warm as the MB? I love the lighter weight, I just don't want to be chilly.

Argh deleted my post! Again:

How could I not love the Versalite – it's my first down bag!

Temp wise it's fine for me here in Tahoe, usable for year-round, with the occasional snow cave for winter. However notice I am talking about spare pads and using a parka, that is a masochist red flag. I'd say its more like a 10* bag. It started as a 20* bag
<<< edit: Wrong! it was a 15* with .9 Pertex Quantum shell – now it is ExtremeLite ? >>
and they added the collar and maybe some down. Also considering a bivy, which should do some good improvement in windy conditions because it's so thin-skinned.

For climbing in storm, recently got a DAS Parka. 2 lb! Depending on your activity (climbing, skiing, snowshoeing), some of that weight would well be spent on a warmer bag, and a lighter parka, usable while moving in warmer temps.

End of September, Bishop area, 11K' on glacier moraine was nice and toasty.

Beginning of October, again out of Bishop, snowstorm with havy condensation in a BD MegaLight, went to bed wet tired wtihout food slept on rocks with 3/4 ridge rest and no parka was cold but not hypo. Woke to ice in the tent and frozen boots. Bluebird!!

MB looks loftier – more like 8" as opposed to 6" for Versalite
I tried to figure it out from their photo, since they dont show loft heights. Versalite looks like 8" at the foot too, because of sidewall/footbox construction, but dips to 6 around the center middle. MB looks more consistently 8", same weight as the 0* WM bag. In fairness, WM does call the versalite a 3-season bag.

Check it!

For my winter bag I went for precisely the HermitsHut option that Sven points out. I'm very happy with it. The WM bags are very conservative. Quality and design are impeccable.

To me a downside of the Montbell bags is the fabric. Their proprietary Ballistic Airlight fabric is noticeably less breathable/stickier because it's heavily calendared. WM is using Pertex Quantum which is unbeatable in those characteristics.

BTW has anyone noticed that the "Super MicroFiber XP" vs. "Extremelite" that WM uses to distinguish their product lines has really gotten very minor? For years now they've been using Quantum as their "eXtremelite" fabric. They've swapped out the MicroFiber as well so that it's just a slightly heavier (30 denier instead of 20 denier) ripstop nylon. They now use it on the top of the ExtremeLite series too. And they all use Quantum inside.

To summarize,

I have an Alpinelite, but am not very big. My thought was to extend the 20F rating down lower by combining the Alpinelite with a quilt or summer bag. I tried it down to ~0F, and I must say that since every space was filled with the combination, I was quite comfortable. Since I don't usually camp below 10F, it makes a more versatile option without requiring another bag in my closet.

Have any of you folks tried that?

the WM is a great bag – you'll never regret getting it. I've used the kodiak with overfill down to 0 and been toasty warm with just some long underwear and socks on. I've no doubt it could go markedly colder too. WM is nice and roomy too.

I can't tell you much about the other bags, but I've yet to come across anyone who regretted getting a WM bag.