Gear List — Grand Canyon May 2015

Jim,

I'll be harsh.

Grand Canyon in mid May? Why so many warm clothes? Were you ever wearing them all at once? I really doubt it.

Yeah, as you've noticed, the Sundries, E-kit and FAK are over-weight. Aim for 8 ounces combined, not 2+ pounds. And the PLB? All of this was on major trails, right? If you chop your hand off somehow, someone will be coming down the trail in 90 seconds with an EPIRB and someone else will be coming up the trail a minute later with a PLB.

Replace the 550-pound line with 80- or 100-pound test fishing line. I'll send 20 feet in the mail to you, if you want (in the land of halibut, everyone has 100-pound test line).

Three platypus bags? 2 or 3 recycled water bottles are lighter, free, and easier to refill.

Headlamp? In May? A tiny pinch light of some sort if you have to do miles well after sunset, plus your phone has a light.

And, just my own perspective: New Testament? If you want to understand the glory of God, you're in the Grand Canyon! Just look around!

"Misc, Pouch (sunscreen, bug juice, lighter, etc.)" sounds like 4 ounces, max, not 6.7 Look for professional-sample sized lotions. I can send you that, too.

Missing: cotton bandana. For the uphill, especially with the water stops on the BA, I like to put a sopping wet bandana around my neck instead of sweating out that much water. I feel that a 1 ounce bandana reduces my water consumption/carrying by several ounces, repeatedly. $1 at Walmart.

Actually, David,

It snowed (on the rim), and I was really glad that I had my windshirt and down hoodie. I probably didn’t need the wind pants, but I didn’t know that going in.

I do carry a bandana, although that sits in my pocket, so it wasn’t on the base weight list.

Thanks for the thoughts. Clearly (well to my mind anyway), I need to “attack” my Clothing and Miscellaneous categories. My Big Three (see the second of the two spreadsheets in the pdf file) is pretty much where I’m happy with it. I might take you up on that 100 lbs test line.

I’m pretty fried tonight, so I’m off to bed, but more thoughts tomorrow…

HJ
Adventures in Stoving
Hikin Jim’s Blog

> Yeah, as you’ve noticed, the Sundries, E-kit and FAK are over-weight. Aim for 8 ounces combined, not 2+ pounds.

A worthy goal. I think this is where I really need to focus my attention. More to follow…

> Three platypus bags? 2 or 3 recycled water bottles are lighter, free, and easier to refill.

One of my Platy 1 L plain bladders weighs 25 g or 50 g for 2L. A 2 L soda bottle weighs 53 g on my scale. Seems like a wash. Are water bottles dramatically lighter than soda bottles?

> And, just my own perspective: New Testament? If you want to understand the glory of God, you’re in the Grand Canyon! Just look around!

Well, I can’t really argue with you much there, but I like having something in my shelter in the dark before I nod off. :)

> “Misc, Pouch (sunscreen, bug juice, lighter, etc.)” sounds like 4 ounces, max, not 6.7 Look for professional-sample sized lotions. I can send you that, too.

Ah, now that’s a good idea. I have a 2 fl oz bottle of bug juice and another 2 fl oz bottle of sun screen. I don’t normally need 2 full fl oz for a hike; those were just convenient sizes to buy. I’m sure I could cut that down to 4 oz overall.

I’ve been focusing on items that weigh 1/4 lbs or more, thinking that’s where the biggest pay off is going to be, but obviously a few oz here and a few oz there quickly adds up.

Thanks for the feedback,

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

I'd find it irksome just keeping track of so many things. Seems like a ton of extras, spares, and sacks, as well as stuff you didn't need (headnet, groundcloth).

Okay, on the platy plain bladders, it's a wash and they pack down nicely when empty. I saw "Hydration, Platypus Big Zip 3L" at 6 ounces and that seemed heavy but your footnote says you could drop 3 ounces in hoses.

>"obviously a few oz here and a few oz there quickly adds up."

Trim 16 2-ounce items in half, and you've saved a pound. For cheap. Really cheap.

1-ounce or 1/2-ounce mosquito repellent containers are hard to find, but at least you can leave your 2-ounce DEET container only 1/3 full. And only refill it to 1/3 from a larger container. I also refill a lot with the little professional-sample sizes of sunscreen, etc. I use a meat injector from the grocery store to refill a dozen of them at once from a larger container (cheaper unit cost). I love the little toothpaste tubes from Chinese hotels – 5 grams of contents, instead of 28 grams in the US sample sizes. Refill after each trip. I try hard to keep things in their original container (or at least anti-fungals in anti-fungal containers, etc). Partly for safety. And because I hate brushing my teeth with Desenex. The exception I make is stick deodorant in a Chapstick tube, but for that, I use a dark green tube, like the Mitchum brand of my deodorant. Or you could wrap your leukotape or duct tape there – you have to wrap it around something.

PM a snail-mail address, and I'll send you some 100-pound test, 5 gram toothpaste tube, mini-sunscreen tube, and a mini-hand-lotion tube (to repackage DEET?). Also mention any medical goo you travel with. My MD wife scores little sample-sized containers of those sometimes.

>"It snowed (on the rim), and I was really glad that I had my windshirt and down hoodie."

This March, it was 19F on the Rim, so it was a little cool, even for Alaskans, in shorts. But only for the first mile. Then my daughter and I were fine.

On the BPL R2R2R Hike on 02/23/2012 (of which I only did 30 miles), we got wet snow and wind for the last half of the final ascent of the SR. Windshirt and LS shirt sufficed because I kept moving. My Nano puff was in reserve.

> I’d find it irksome just keeping track of so many things. Seems like a ton of extras, spares, and sacks, as well as stuff you didn’t need (headnet, groundcloth).

I just took a look at your gear list, Dave. It looks very Spartan by comparison to my (not necessarily a bad thing).

So, I guess you don’t bring stuff sacks of any kind? That would be an adjustment, but probably I could save a 1/4 lbs or so that way. And no tooth brush? No change of undies?

No headnet? Hmm. I don’t need it every trip, but when I do, it’s really really good to have. Bug juice will keep the gnats 4 to 6″ out, but they still are in my field of vision, which I find really irritating. Still, as I reflect, I don’t need the headnet but maybe once or twice per dozen or so trips. Have to think about that one.

In any event, looking at my totals (see waaaaay below my “signature”), my Miscellaneous category is the largest and the one I need to look at most.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

My comments are based on the 'proposed changes' list.

I'm wondering what's all in the FAK (7.9oz) and in the eKit (7.9oz) considering you also list these items separately:
– Batteries (phone, camera, headlamp) 6.0oz
– Sundries (patch kit, chapstick, meds, etc.) 9.6oz
– Parachute cord 1.4oz
– Pouch (sunscreen, bug juice, lighter, etc.) 6.7oz

Overall, seems like a lot of knick-knacks

I question needing extra batteries for phone, headlamp (and a case for this, as well?) Phone's not going to work in the Canyon and it looks like you're not using it as a camera, so just turn it off and leave it in your pack for emergencies. *Unless you're using it for reading.

PLB's not a bad idea if you're going to be solo and exploring side-canyons and such. If you're talking about being on the corridor/popular trails, there's no need.

You won't need a headnet (ever) or a sleep balaclava (in May). I've never taken any repellent or wished I had in the Canyon.

1.3oz for a sleeping bag stuff sack is pretty heavy. And what's the "down hoodie sweater stuff sack" for?

I see wind shirt & pants (7.5oz) and Ghost Whisperer shell (2.6oz) – I can't imagine needing wind pants in May. If it were me, I would take just the Whisperer and leave the wind shirt. Even if it's cold at the rim, you'll be plenty warm within 30 minutes below the rim. You just need something a little warm at camp at night, when "breathability" isn't a factor.

Things I'm not seeing:
– Water treatment
– Food protection (i.e. Outsak) Need depends on where your camps are

A nylafume bag is half the weight of a trash compactor bag. I'll gladly send you one. Lots of good suggestions already.

To be fair, you were a lot more definitive when it came to listing your odds and ends, but all my misc gear save headlamp and toilet paper fits into a size small Gossamer Gear zippered cuben ditty bag. Aside from that I bring one drybag for sleeping bag and clothes, and one for my food. That's it.

Bring a headnet (and other stuff) when needed by all means, but the Grand Canyon is very rarely a buggy place, and in my book never bad enough for a headnet. If clothing, sleeping gear, and food change to suit the season why not misc gear as well?

> A nylafume bag is half the weight of a trash compactor bag. I’ll gladly send you one. Lots of good suggestions already.

Half the weight? Interesting! Can’t say I’ve heard of one before. I’ll send you a PM.

I have to admit to having had a certain obsession, er, focus I mean, on a particular category of gear (stoves). There are a lot of other areas where my knowledge is somewhat less robust.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

If clothing, sleeping gear, and food change to suit the season why not misc gear as well?

Hmm. A particularly good point, Dave. I must confess I have a sort of “standard package” that sits in the bottom of my backpack that I never really take a look at. [insert look of embarassment here]

Yeah, there’s no reason for a headnet in the GC. The Sierra Nevada? Yes. The local ranges here in Southern California? Heck yes. (I hate gnats) But the main take away for me is to pack for the trip, even on the small items. Thanks for the insight. Sheesh, I’m getting lazy.

I bring one drybag for sleeping bag and clothes, and one for my food. That’s it.

Hmm. I could live with that. I’ve also at times just used a 2 gallon Ziploc for sleeping bag, another for clothes, and another for food. That’s a pretty lightweight option although the “Zips” fail fairly often.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

Hi, Sumi,

My comments are based on the ‘proposed changes’ list.

First, thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed reading of my list. :)

Overall, seems like a lot of knick-knacks

Yeah, I’m kind of coming away with that sense too. I typically have focused on my big three, then “kitchen”. My big three is at 5.3 lbs and my kitchen is at 0.9 lbs, so I’m probably not going to achieve any meaningful weight reductions there (short of a large outlay of cash). My emphasis has been on any piece of gear weighing more than a quarter pound. Not a bad emphasis, but the obvious problem with it is that the little things add up. Time to shift emphasis.

I question needing extra batteries for phone, headlamp (and a case for this, as well?) Phone’s not going to work in the Canyon and it looks like you’re not using it as a camera, so just turn it off and leave it in your pack for emergencies. *Unless you’re using it for reading.

Agreed, and I walked away with that sense too. Way too many batteries. I frequently use my Smartphone for maps and GPS which eats about one battery per day, but there really isn’t any navigational challenge on the corridor trails. I didn’t even use one full battery, let alone the three I carried. I never used the external battery that I carried for re-charging. I would have on most of my trips, but not for corridor trails in the Grand Canyon. I didn’t think that one through. [sigh]

Camera batteries, I was spot on with. A camera battery lasts me about two days, and this was a four day trip.

Headlamp batteries, I was way over on. I carried three (one in the headlamp), but only needed the one in the headlamp. Not sure what I was thinking there. The little zippered pouch I keep the headlamp in weighs less than an ounce, and the headlamp is about 1.5 ounces with battery. The entire package is about 2 oz. I think I can live with that. I kind of like the little pouch for some reason although I guess I could just throw it in my “miscellaneous” Ziploc just as easily.

You won’t need a headnet (ever) or a sleep balaclava (in May). I’ve never taken any repellent or wished I had in the Canyon.

Good points on the headnet and bug juice. I could have left them home. The sleep balaclava is more to keep the oils from my hair out of the hood of my sleeping bag. I definitely didn’t need to bring both a fleece cap (~2 oz) and the little balaclava (~1.5 oz). I’d probably ditch the fleece cap and just use the little balaclava for both a warmth hat and to keep my sleeping bag clean.

1.3oz for a sleeping bag stuff sack is pretty heavy. And what’s the “down hoodie sweater stuff sack” for?

The sleeping bag stuff sack is the one that came with the sleeping bag. Does seem a little heavy now that I’m thinking about it. I’m either going to swap it out for a dry bag, which while a little heavier will at least provide me some functionality (i.e. keeping water out), or use a Ziploc. The “down hoodie sweater stuff sack” is a stuff sack to put my sweater weight down hoodie into. It’s just a convenience item, making it easier to organize things for packing. The down sweater hereinafter will go into a Ziploc or into the same dry bag as the sleeping bag.

More responses to your really detailed analysis (again, thank you!) as time permits.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

> I’m wondering what’s all in the FAK (7.9oz) and in the eKit (7.9oz)

Good question. These usually sit in the bottom of my pack in opaque plastic bags, orange for FAK, yellow for eKit. I transfer them back and forth between my day pack and my overnight pack depending on whether I’m just day hiking, say on a Saturday or doing a backpacking trip. I never look at what’s in them; I just cart them around. [insert sheepish look here] Probably a good thing to take a look at. :)

Contents I carried in the Grand Canyon are as follows:
FAK
Ace bandage with two safety pins, 2.3 oz
Med tape, 1.4 oz
Triangular bandage, 0.8 oz
2 x Roller gauze, 1.9 oz (total)
CPR Shield, 0.6 oz
Adventure Medical Kits “Optimist” kit, 6.4 oz total.
    -Latex gloves
    -Bandaids
    -4 x 4 gauze
    -Tweezers
    -Antibiotic ointment
    -Moleskin
    -Antacid
    -Antihistimine
    -Motrin
    -Tylenol

The med tape (I carry duct tape) and the CPR shield (CPR can be performed without it) could be dispensed with without too much loss. I’m pretty paranoid about bleeding, so I may keep one roller gauze. The triangular bandage could be replaced with something improvised from long johns or a T shirt or something, so that goes. There’s ~4 oz savings there. I could leave behind the Ace bandage, but I have had knee problems, and an Ace bandage is pretty hard to improvise. Dunno. Have to think about that.

eKit
Aquamira Chlorine Dioxide tablets in a pill bottle, 1.3 oz
Space blanket, 3.0 oz
Water bladder, 1.6 oz
Seam Grip Field Repair Kit, 0.9 oz
Matches, 0.6 oz
Sewing kit, 0.4 oz
Knife sharpener, 0.5 oz
Pamphlet, 0.4 oz
An Adventure Medical Kits Pocket Survival Pack (PSK), 4.0 oz, which contains:
    -Small whistle
    -“Button” compass
    -Sparker (fire starter)
    -4 x Tinder-Qwik (tinder)
    -Needle and Thread
    -Wire
    -String
    -Safety pins
    -Signal mirror
    -Fresnel lens (flat magnifying glass)
    -Mini duct tape roll
    -Golf pencil
    -Scalpel blade

Well, I’m a double dipped dummy. Not much reason to carry a space blanket when I’ve got a full on shelter in my backpack. The spare water bladder could be removed, particularly since I almost always carry more than one 1 L Platy bladders. The chlorine dioxide tabs aren’t something I bring all the time; I carried them on this trip just because of the potential for a waterline break (which did occur). Since there’s a needle and thread in the PSK, I don’t need a separate sewing kit, so there’s about 1/2 an ounce there. I carry a little mini roll of duct tape in my misc. Ziploc which can be eliminated since there’s a roll in the PSK, about 1/2 an ounce savings. There’s an easy 6 ounces in savings without sacrificing much.

> Things I’m not seeing:
– Water treatment
– Food protection (i.e. Outsak) Need depends on where your camps are

I carry Aquamira in my eKit. There was piped water at Bright Angel CG where we were staying. There were also large ammo boxes provided, so I left the Outsak at home for this trip.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving
Hikin’ Jim’s Blog

So, we're talking about a corridor rim-to-river hike.

Now that we know what's in the FAK and eKit, what are in these?
– Sundries (patch kit, chapstick, meds, etc.) 9.6 oz
– Pouch (sunscreen, bug juice, lighter, etc.) 6.7 oz

Look at your bottom line, it's that 4.4lb of "misc" stuff.

Is it just me or do others find an Ace bandage to be fairly useless? I'd rather carry some tape and some stick to itself bandage wrap.

"Is it just me or do others find an Ace bandage to be fairly useless?"

If you've ever had a serious knee injury, you will probably carry an Ace wrap. The more recent the knee injury was, the wider the Ace wrap that you carry. I have a selection of them, 6" down to 1.5".

–B.G.–

Seconded. Once you had a serious knee or ankle injury, it's kind of difficult to let go of the ACE; especially if it's an old one which keeps reoccurring.

Haven't really happened to me, but a partner of mine torn the knee while doing agility and didn't really recover fully from it; so the knee acts up now and then.

Torn meniscus, Osgood Schlatter. So no, nothing serious.

>> Is it just me or do others find an Ace bandage to be fairly useless?

I worked as an athletic trainer through college. Ace bandages were useful for strapping on ice bags. :)

If you're dealing with a knee injury, a real knee brace is much more effective. To minimize stress, consider hiking poles.

As first aid, I think aces are useless. FWIW, I broke my ankle in the GC a few years ago. I splinted it with a little athletic tape, camp shoes (croc knock-offs) and duct tape. Four ibuprofen.

yep Sumi – ACE wraps are VERY ineffective for anything but emotional support. There is literally ZERO support provided by one, especially at the knee.

Great for holding on ice packs, tho.

Thought so. Thanks. Ditch it! Jim.

Removing 40 lbs from myself was the best thing I ever did for my knees.

I was tele skiing at Squaw Valley when I blew the turn. You know how your knee is supposed to bend? Mine went the other way. I knew that the knee was badly damaged, so I lashed it up using a 6" Ace wrap over the outside of the clothing… very tightly. The ski patrol put me on the gondola going down. My buddy met me at the bottom of the gondola and we walked about a half-mile back to the car with me using two ski poles. I reached the hospital ER about 36 hours later, and open surgery was done about 24 hours after that. The surgeon had to repair a fully ruptured medial collateral ligament, the ACL, and some cartilage involvement. He claimed that there was no possible way that I could have walked more than one step on it. In fact, it was the wide Ace wrap that held me together for that half-mile.

In many places, you simply are not going to have a proper knee brace available. However, a wide Ace wrap might possibly be the temporary tool to get you by.

–B.G.–

Bob, I will argue that it was your bad-ass-ness that got you through that half mile. An ace wrap, even with two ski poles, is no match for the ground-reaction forces at the medial knee in the absence of an MCL and ACL.