More Winter Stoves becoming available

Roger, you know I'm interested (if only to finally have a stove with all those Powermax-canisters I have) :-). Those $, are those AUS$ or US$ as the difference is significant (now) ?

US$, as a lot of my materials come from the USA.

Cheers

Roger, it might be timely for you to summarize your winter stove features. Somebody might be reading this that has no idea what you did previously. Just for a second, pretend that you are some advertising copy writer for MSR.

–B.G.–

I, for example, no idea what you are talking about.

A link to the article series might already be a simple start ?

> pretend that you are some advertising copy writer for MSR.
Jeez Bob – you really know how to hurt a guy! That was a bit low!

OK: the Winter Stove and its evolution and everything is fully described at

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Lessons learnt
Infra-Red testing

in my very typical massive over-kill style. :-)

Um – not sure whether any of these are available to non-members though. Never mind: the discussions following the articles tend to be moderately informative – I hope?

Incredibly brief summary:
Remote canister winter stove
Handles screw-thread, Campingaz & Powermax canisters directly (international use)
Dual controls: safety on/off valve at canister, GAS valve at stove (controllable!!)
FMS-300T version with centre-support legs: ~87 g complete
FMS-116T version with centre-support legs: ~90 g complete
BRS-3000T version with centre-support legs: ~70 g complete WITHDRAWN
CO emissions for 300T are <10 ppm, 116T probably <30 ppm (from memory)
Works to -20 C happily, lower if you keep things warmer than the environment
I have sold ~110 so far

Cheers
(Edited for URLs and BRS wt)

You should do clickable links for all those people using mobile devices.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Roger, do you have an estimated weight of what the BRS-3000T version would weigh?

OK, OK, links made clickable and BRS-3000T weight added above. (~70 g total).

Cheers

Neat. So, the BRS-300T wouldn't look much different from FMS from the past photos, yes?

I would be interested in shaving off another 100 g from my current winter-camping setup with Kovea Spider.

Just have to talk to my roommate about the justification for dropping $110 for the labour, plus $11-$12 for the stove and $25-$30 for the shipping.

> the BRS-3000T wouldn't look much different from FMS from the past photos, yes?
About right.

The Kovea spider is a good stove, just a bit heavy in comparison. Kovea stoves are good, but a lot of them are now a bit heavy in comparison.

Cheers

After burning 2 small canisters with my BRS-3000T stove, I would suggest that anyone having Roger set you up with one of his next-generation remote "RC" stoves to NOT send him a BRS-3000T, but rather go with the Fire Maple FMS-300T. It is 0.6 oz. heavier, and $30 more expensive (per Amazon), but I think it is a superior stove. This is the burner that is on my Caffin remote stove, and I think it outperforms the BRS-3000T in many ways. Its flame pattern is better, and it is far less susceptible to mild breezes. It also simmers as well as the BRS-3000T, if not a bit better due to its breeze-resistance.

If you are going to spend the money to get a very high quality remote stove, why go with a cheaper burner? Roger has this dialed in, and his quality is superb. So provide him with the highest quality burner you can.

I don't have the BRS-3000t but am happy with the FMS-300t. It's efficient enough to say "Yes, it is efficient." It averaged about 10.5gm per liter over a 5 day trip with my daughter. Sorry, I didn't get the water temps, this was after I returned home and weighed it.

Gary, I would have guessed that "breeze resistance" for a remote canister stove would come mainly from the windscreen. Would this actually be an issue for the BRS-3000T in remote canister form? Does burner design or flame pattern have any effect on "breeze resistance"?

I was planning to get the BRS-3000T version, but if the FMS-300T is noticeably superior, then maybe I will go that route. Any expected difference in fuel economy for melting snow or boiling water?

Fuel economy or efficiency is OK. It gets about the same efficiency as my old SVEA. The SVEA runs between 9-12gm per liter on low with a wind screen. Rogers's Stove, with the FMS300t, does slightly better at 9-11gm/liter. The difference is likely due to water temps and priming…not real fussy about testing it. I just take a new can (230gm) weigh it when I get back and divide by the number of liters we cooked.

Melting Snow? Again, there is a real wide variation due to temps, techniques, etc. I used to figure about ~.75ounce/l (hmm…around double or ~20-24gm) with the old SVEA. I never tried Roger's Stove. (I got diabetes about 15 years ago and quit winter camping.)

John, the only FMS-300T I've seen/used is the one on my Caffin stove. I think that the burner design of that stove seems more efficient (reliable?) than the one on my BRS-3000T. But you're right, a windscreen helps the BRS immensely. The FMS doesn't really need a screen unless the breeze picks up to what might be called a "light wind." I expect that is due to the actual difference between the two burner designs. The fuel economy seems about the same for both stoves in calm conditions, maybe a bit better for the FMS but I'm not sure. You see, the windscreen I've used for the FMS completely enclosed the stove, whereas the BRS was only a 3/4 screen with a large opening on the lee side to prevent canister overheat. This could easily explain the one-gram increase in fuel usage. What I liked was the much faster boil times of the FMS in screened, upright mode. I was getting an average of 6.67 gram fuel consumption for my 2-cup boils at 43* F ambient, which took an average of 4:15 minutes. The BRS, in 50-55* F conditions averaged just over 7 gm. of fuel to bring to boil, but it took longer at the medium-low setting I settled on, averaging about 6 minutes.

I've only tested the snow melt capability of the FMS while in the upright mode. At 15* F I placed a hand warmer under the canister and melted 1.0 liter worth of snow in 16:00 minutes using 16 grams of fuel. Without the hand warmer, it took 20:00 minutes (at 20* F ambient), and again used 16:00 grams of fuel. These results were fairly similar to 29* F ambient snow melt tests with the Jetboil MiniMo and the MSR Windpro (in upright mode).

> I would have guessed that "breeze resistance" for a remote canister stove would come
> mainly from the windscreen.
Exactly.
I never use any stove without a windscreen.

Cheers

Thanks for the feedback/info. That is helpful.

From the above, I think the BRS-3000T would be fine for me. With the remote canister, I would always use a windscreen (wind or no, they seem to help a lot) so I imagine fuel efficiency would be approx equal. Also, I'm confident Roger wouldn't offer up the BRS-3000T if he didn't think it was a good stove. He certainly knows more about stoves than I do :)

So what is your stand, Roger? Which is the better, more dependable burner head?

> So what is your stand, Roger? Which is the better, more dependable burner head?

Note that the BRS has an aluminium thread, so the whole stove won't last as long as the brass threads on the FMS stoves. But just the burner HEAD, as part of one of my winter stoves? Difficult. They are all trade-offs.

FMS-116T: slightly larger diameter pot supports, larger diameter burner or flame spread, somewhat higher CO levels as the pot is a little bit too close to the burner

FMS-300T: low CO levels, slightly smaller pot support diameter, pot supports area bit easy to flip over, smaller flame spread (but NOT a focused flame)

BRS-300T: lightest stove of the lot, cheapest stove of the lot, pot support diameter is slightly smaller, pot supports sort-of 'clip' into position so they are stable, CO levels usually OK
CONVERSION PROBLEMS, so BRS-3000T withdrawn

Summary: I am happy to offer any FMS burner.

Cheers

For those who have ordered and are waiting, and for those wondering:

Burners:
FMS116T some ordered, due
FMS300T
BRS-3000T some ordered, due

Stove body material in hand
M3 SS screws stock
M3 SS nuts stock
Heat Shunt material in hand
Heat Exchanger Int'l material in hand

Main Canister Body material ordered
Spider made
Main Ring made
Valve pin made
Plastic washer made
OR 7×3 O-ring ordered, due
Cam Valve made
Retainer plate made
#0x6 mm pan hd ST stock

Hose PFA limited stock
Stainless steel Braid ordered, due
Heat shrink stock

Stove connector sleeve made
Stove screw nut made
Crimp ring made
Lock tube 1.83 mm made
OR3x1.5 mm O-ring stock

Can connector sleeve made
Crimp ring made
Retainer plate made
#0x6 pan hd STs stock
OR5x1.5 O-ring ordered, due
Lock tube stock

Leg sets made
Brass washers 22 mm made
Ti washers 22 mm material in hand
Ti washers 20 mm material in hand
Ti washers 6 mm material in hand
Ti washers 3 mm material in hand
Spring/Wave washers stock

The CNC is humming every day.
Cheers

Hi All

So far I have shipped
batch 1: 10 stoves with FMS-116T burners
batch 2: 27 stoves with FMS-300T burners
batch 3: 22 stoves with FMS-300T burners
batch 4: 9 stoves with FMS-300T burners
batch 5: 10 stoves with FMS-300T burners
batch 6: 9 stoves with FMS-300T burners
batch 7: 7 stoves with FMS-300T burners
batch 8: 4 stoves with FMS-300T burners
batch 9: 7 stoves with FMS-300T burners
batch 10: starting again

Yes, I am making more winter stoves. This time I am buying the burners over the web in small numbers at a fairly good price, which includes shipping to me. That means I can now offer the FMS-300T and the FMS-116T. Obviously, I have made lots of the parts to fit the FMS-300T burner, so making more is not a problem (ie I have validated CNC programs). The FMS-116T burner is compatible with the FMS-300T as far as the conversion is concerned, so it is easy too.

Most parts are now in stock, just waiting on the SS braid for the hose. They shipped the wrong stuff the first time. They are replacing it.

I did advertise the BRS-3000T burner, but owing to some problems with the conversion I have withdrawn it from sale. The BRS-3000T stove is quite OK as an upright canister stove: the problem lay in how much work would be needed for the conversion.

Weights
FMS-300T: ~87 g
FMS-116T: ~90 g

All stoves are tested in three ways before shipping. They are pressure tested (underwater) for leaks with the stove control valve turned off. They are tested for gas flow to make sure the jet and valve are not blocked. Finally, they are 'burn-tested' to make sure they work how they should. This last test means the burner will not look 'new', as it has had a flame on it.

Feedback from early beta-testers has been valuable, with a couple of small issues (mostly single unit problems) all fixed. Regardless of all of that, if you have any problems, please contact me. I WANT to know what problems are found: that's what a beta test is about. Any faults reported WILL be identified and fixed.

Cost
FMS burners ~US$37
Rest of the stove: US$140 + P&P for non-BPL-members, $110 + P&P for BPL members
Paypal fee ~$6.60 per transaction

Post&packing costs are as follows. These are based on what Australia Post charges me. I am using Registered Post for all overseas mailings.

Australia Registered: $13
New Zealand Registered: $19
USA/Can Registered: $25
UK Registered: $28
Western Europe Registered: $28
Eastern Europe Registered: $30 (inc Russia)

So, for example, to ship one stove using an FMS-300T burner by Registered Post to a BPL member in America costs ABOUT $37 + $110 + $6.60 + $25 = $178.60. That is, you pay about $178.60 total. I then pay the Paypal fee and the postage.

So, if you want a beta-test stove, contact me via roger@backpackinglight.com . Please include your country at this stage. If you are a member of BPL please include your user name to get the discount. Payment is required in advance, and international delivery will take the usual time. There may be slight delays depending on delivery time for burners and other parts (eg O-rings), but any orders accepted will be filled – that I guarrantee.

I will need your full postal address for the shipping. Payment will be by Paypal to bcs_stoves@tpg.com.au . Allow appropriate postage for your country.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

It sounds like you do not intend to ship to Africa. Of course, maybe they don't do many winter trips.

–B.G.–

Hi Bob

I am not sure whether we have any readers in Africa.
I know we have readers in the Americas, Australia, across Europe, Israel and Japan, because I have shipped stoves there.

Cheers