Smartphone/GPS/Camera question

If I were getting a phone right now, I'd get the Galaxy s5. Waterproof right out of the box, great camera, and you can use Backcountry Navigator loaded with maps on a 64gb microsd card. Caltopo maps, airplane mode and you are set. Pretty good battery life. Pair with a solar charger if you're out west or a battery pack if you're in the PNW or east coast or anywhere with a lot of trees.

Edit: Might have been unclear – Backcountry Navigator Pro is an android app that allows you to download Caltopo maps of anywhere you want while you're at home, then you can access them even in airplane mode with the GPS function on your phone running. So effectively you can load 64gbs of maps (which would be like half the country) on a microsd card, and you've got GPS wherever you go regardless of cell coverage. Set waypoints, take track recordings, altitude, etc.

I use backcountry navigator on my HTC One m7, but it has no microsd slot so I'm limited in how many maps I can actually download.

"Just to throw out another idea, I've considered replacing the SPOT device I already carry (to make mom feel good) with a Delorma Inreach which would be more useful in an actual emergency situation. Anybody have much experience using the GPS function on the Inreach?"

I have a DeLorme inReach SE, which is the one that does not require any smart phone or other device. I've seen the GPS function. What is the question?

–B.G.–

"I have a DeLorme inReach SE, which is the one that does not require any smart phone or other device. I've seen the GPS function. What is the question?"

Mostly just interested in how simple it is to put a waypoint (a waterfall in my case) into the device and use that to let me know when I'm getting close. From what I've heard the Inreach SE doesn't have enough memory for a lot of maps so you need to upload waypoints ahead of time.

I should have added that I'd rather not get a super expensive phone/plan although I would spend more if I felt good about the GPS part.

No, there may be some confusion here.

The DeLorme inReach SE does not do GPS mapping. You cannot route yourself to a waypoint.

It does have a GPS receiver, and it can display your GPS coordinates in numbers, because that is what it needs to be able to send an emergency message, and that is also what it needs to embed your position into an ordinary outbound message. Outbound messages might go to a personal contact, and they can use the DeLorme web site and your position to see on a map where you are. However, you out in the field can't see any of this.

There are different models of inReach with different features.

–B.G.–

Sorry Bob, I got the Inreach Se and InReach Explorer mixed up.

Yes, I think the inReach Explorer has a deeper feature set. It also costs more.

Personally, I am not a big fan of using GPS receivers with full mapping. The screens are too damned small, so you can never get "the big picture" of where you are.

This is one case where a smart phone with a big screen might have an advantage.

OTOH, the GPS functions of many smart phones can be very limited as compared to a real GPS receiver.

–B.G.–

Good points Bob, I personally like the idea of a big map I can spread out better then a GPS or a phone. OTOH reading a paper map while sitting in a packraft might be rather awkward but a quick GPS check shouldn't be so bad.

@ Bob. Do you think acquisition times would be worse or the same in a phone vs. a stand alone unit?

Luke, I may be old school, but I prefer to carry a custom color printed topo map, 13×19 inches. Then I carry a teeny tiny GPS receiver, but I use it only about once a day. Additionally, I carry the inReach SE, but it is mostly for two-way text.

–B.G.–

Ken, by acquisition time, you may be referring to Time To First Fix (TTFF). There are variations. TTFF Cold means from the time you turn the device on until it has a position fix. TTFF Warm means that the device has been running, and then you request a position update.

Some types of smart phones with some network services do Network Assisted GPS determination. In other words, they use the wireless network to speed up the first fix. When you get too far out in the wilderness, you don't have any wireless network, so if your gadget needs that, you have a problem.

Smart phones use a general purpose processor that is good for running lots of different kinds of small applications. GPS receivers mostly use a specialized processor that does the GPS stuff and that is all, so it might be faster or more efficient. There are probably a few new exceptions to this. Plus, GPS receivers tend to use some good oscillators and other components that will improve performance.

If you are really concerned about GPS performance, try to latch onto a mil-spec GPS receiver.

–B.G.–

Thanks Bob.

Bob your ideas plus other threads make me think a dedicated GPS is the way to go for river trips. I'll probably look at something like an eTrak 20. That one has gotten good reviews and it can do maps if I decide that is something I want to use. On a new river I'll be checking the GPS fairly often anyway so having a map on there makes some sense. Once I start hiking I'll probably stow the GPS and rely solely on my maps.
The smartphone will probably jus stay home although I may download maps onto it for front country trips.
The InReach will have to wait for another day one way or the other.

"That one has gotten good reviews and it can do maps"

Be very careful with "do maps."

Some devices have topo maps preloaded, but the map detail is moderate to poor. Some devices have topo maps that you can download, but the detail isn't much better. Some devices have topo maps that you can purchase for download. Some devices can accept _your_ maps. Some maps can be edited in a computer. Some can't.

Everybody has a different idea of what they mean by maps. The GPS marketing guys just know that is a feature to sell. They don't care what it means.

As I have stated many times, I use the ancient National Geographic TOPO! program on my computer, and I have the entire map database of California (to the same resolution as the best USGS topo maps). So, I custom edit a chunk of map for where I'm going, print that large, and I am away.

–B.G.–

Like Bob, I prefer paper maps; I just take the coordinates from the GPS device and mentally transfer them to the paper map. My limited experience with hand-held GPS devices (an ancient eTrex Vista and a more recent 62s) has been that the mapping UI on them is too slow and clunky, and the screen size too small, for practical use.

That said, apps like Gaia GPS on a modern large, hi-res phone screen are quite enjoyable to use.

-J

My phone (HTC One m7) can get a GPS fix in under a minute with no cell signal, in a heavily wooded forest, on a cloudy day. This is with GPS turned on while the phone is in airplane mode.

The dedicated GPS units can do it in under 30 seconds, but it's not a big enough difference to matter. Smartphone has the advantage of being a multi-use device, it can display maps better, and it can store more maps. It also can be used to take pictures, read ebooks, play music, as a backup flashlight, and as an emergency communications device.

I'm not sure how the GPS features of my smartphone can be considered limited in any way. With Backcountry Navigator for $12 I have the entire country caltopo maps available down to an extremely tight zoom, an inch being .05mi on my 4.7" screen. I can set waypoints, I can record tracks, I can draw routes on the map using the touchscreen, I can do more with it than I can with any of the consumer Garmin units I've used. The GPS receiver in my phone, which is two years old, functions extremely well without any sort of assistance from a cell tower.

I'm not affiliated with this company in any way, but I've used it in remote areas for work (on trail crews in Nevada) consistently for several years now. It's extremely handy for following BLM roads, off trail hiking following waypoints, even when I haven't had a cell signal for days.

http://backcountrynavigator.com/

Of course I never go anywhere without a physical map, but I don't trust any electronic device not to fail.

I use an iPhone 5 with the Gaia GPS app. It works great, but you do need to download the maps before you get out of cell range. From that point it operates as a stand-alone GPS. It really does everything I need in a GPS. Not bad for $20.

Battery life is the challenge when using continuous tracking. I have a couple different backup battery packs that can extend the range. If I turn it on for a quick fix, it doesn't use much battery life.

Getting one that is really waterproof would be very cool. From there I would say it just depends on how the OS works for you personally. If you speak Apple, the iPhone will meld with your iPad and other Apple gear.

I do always carry a compass and paper maps.

I use the phone camera as a visual notepad and use a dedicated camera for the "real" photography.

Does anyone have any experience with devices such as Bad Elf GPS, which is a GPS receiver that pairs with your phone via Bluetooth? I've wondered if they have any advantages in terms of time to first fix, accuracy, and especially battery life over using the phone's built in GPS.

On an iPhone, unfortunately, when you put it in airplane mode to save battery, it also disables GPS. So in that way, this would save my phone's battery by allowing me to keep it in airplane mode but still have a GPS signal. But will a replace the phone's battery drain with an equivalent Bad Elf battery drain, or is the Bad Elf more power efficient, perhaps due to the specialized processor as Bob mentioned?

It'd be great if this offered the advantages of a dedicated GPS unit along with the advantages of a smart phone, namely large, high resolution screen, ample storage, and lower cost and weight assuming you already own the phone and plan to take it with you anyway.

To me the biggest drawback of using a smartphone in place of a GPS is the
screen visibility in bright sun. Just try reading anything on your screen while
outside in bright sun. To me it's useless even with the screen brightness
level set all the way up.
Another thing about smartphone cameras is that they are not all equal. I have
one of the cheap Droids, it came with the plan for no extra $, and it makes a
crappy camera. Remember that they all use digital zoom, no optical zoom, so
that doesn't work very well. My phone did have a built in Panorama mode though.
That was nice.
Battery life is another problem. I can get 50 hrs of use out of my Garmin etrex 30
from one set of AA Lithium cells. How many hours use can you get from your phone before it's out of juice ? That probably means carrying an external battery charger.
More weight.

Larry OldnSlow

I have had no problem reading my phone screen in the full sun of the Mojave desert in a year of doing trail work. This may be an issue on certain phones, but the two phones (Galaxy S5 and HTC One M7) I've used have no problem with this at all. Granted, jacking the brightness up so that the screen is visible drains the battery faster but a cheap solar charger is more than enough to compensate, especially when there is that much sun.

Continuous tracking is obviously best left to a dedicated unit, but I'm not sure why there would be any need for that. I can leave my phone on in airplane mode, turn off the GPS receiver, and keep it in my pocket and pull it out to check every 15 minutes or so and turn on the GPS receiver in order to make sure I haven't gone off course. Once it has a fix in an area, it is very fast to reacquire if you don't shut the phone off.

Buying a low-end version of anything results in it not functioning as well as the other pieces of gear that cost more, just like anything. A used Galaxy S5 can be had for $300, and it's going to have an excellent 16mp camera, full waterproof rating IP67 i believe (you can take pictures underwater), a screen good enough to deal with the sun, and great battery life.

I'm not a huge proponent of smartphones, but it just seems strange to me that people are against them when they have obviously become a great piece of multi-use gear if setup correctly.

I really like OruxMaps on my Android phone.

I have some posts in a related thread:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=87967