Tarptent vs Small Double Wall Tent

The Seedhouse 3 SL is bigger — and still fairly light.

Thanks. The SL3 is around 4 pounds, just like the SD Lightning, and the MSR Hubba Hubba… It's also 5 inches wider than the SD Lightning, but has less steep sides, so I imagine the SL3 is not much easier to more around in without contacting the condensation laden walls than the SD Lightning.

Is the HS Squall 2 or Cloudburst any roomier & easier to more around in (while dressing, or getting gear stored at the foot of the shelter) than the Lightning, Hubba Hubba, or SL3 ?

I believe the BA SL3 has much more space — esp. in the mid-section — which is where it counts — more so than at the two ends of a tent. Click over to Big Agnes and check out the floor diagram. Better yet, do a physical “crawl in” to be sure.

I own a TT Contrail and love it.

BUT a self-supporting tent is almost as nice as a self-supporting wife. (My wife doesn't read this site, natch.)

Still, I'll take my Contrail for the light weight and the quick set-up and tear-down. AND all the interior space.

Eric

I use the tarptent contrail. It has plenty of space inside to move without making contact with the walls. Even for a 6 foot tall person. The humidity is much lower were I live however.
I have a freind who uses his contrail out east and has reported problems of misting from condensation on the walls during heavy rains.

John,
Are you looking for a 2 person or solo tent? The Contrail is solo, and a great tent. I love mine. The Cloudburst has more vertical walls than the Squall2 and may be less prone to being bumped into. They are both 2 person tents. I also own one of each and they are great tents. I think if I were you, though, I would check out the Rainbow or Double Rainbow. I don't have these tents, but they are reportedly very roomy. You might consider Six Moon Designs tents also.
-Mark

"It also has to perform well in condensation prone weather (65-75 degree days with 35-40 degree nights) – with only a mild breeze."

Be careful about using the oh-so-light single wall non-breathable tarptents in the above-described situation — esp. if breeze is less than mild. As a solo user, I know how to manage a reasonable amount of condensation by periodic wiping of the walls and controlling movement inside my tarptent. But with kids romping around, that may be just asking for trouble.

I have the Six Moons Designs lunar duo and find it extremely roomy (even for 2), quick to set up, really light, etc. If you hike with trekking poles you're set!

"It also has to perform well in condensation prone weather (65-75 degree days with 35-40 degree nights) – with only a mild breeze."
I didn't find condensation issues with my lunar duo until temps went from warm days to temps below 30* but that was in higher elevations and not near water.
Is this for two adults, an adult and youth, more, less? Did I miss something?

The shelter will be for 2 people. About 1/2 the time the 2nd person will be an "inexperienced" adult – where "inexperienced" really means someone who tends to ignore any advise I give them and assume that everything is as foolproof as the 4 man double wall tent they have experience with. (ie: My wife or another parent on a 3-5 hiking trip with the Boy Scouts).

The other half of the time, the 2nd person will be one of my kids (ie: a non-careful youth). They'll be using down bags with nylon DWR coated shells – which is why I'm so concerned about contact with condensation covered walls and rain storms.

I have a SD Lightning. It much more prone to condensation than my SD Meteor Lite due to it's small volume, narrow with, and lack of peak vents. The inside of the fly was hard not to press against (right through the mesh inner tent) when rolling to the side, or dressing, or exiting, etc. A tarp was soudly vetoed since it allowed spyders, so I'm hoping a bigger single wall shelter with enough ventilation to handle the high humidity of VA & MD will solve my problems.

Are the tarptent style shelters likely to meet the diverse needs listed in my 1st post – or is this just wishful thinking ?

Thanks.

John:

Given the issues with condensation and rough usage… I really think you will do better looking at the more traditional, "boy scout friendly", double-walled, three-season tents. Some are lighter than others. Take a look at the Eureka Pinnacle 2XTA or 3XTA models.

As stated, single-wall silnylon tarptents are prone to condensation — certainly more so than your SD Lightning! As well — and perhaps even more of an issue — the ultralight tent fabric and tissue-soft no-see-um mesh won't stand up well to kid or careless adult abuse.

Yes, Ben has a point. Having just recently seen fit young people way out of their comfort zone inside heavy,spacious and strong tents, I will have to remember to add "warnings" to my Tarptents and the like gear.
I would raccomend an overnighter as a gear test before any more challenging walks.
Franco

I'm hoping to find a 2 person shelter in the 2.5 pound range since I have to carry 2 sets of gear in order to prevent the kids from having to carry too much weight. I'd also like to use two 2 person shelters rather than one 4 person shelter since so it's easier to find an area big enough to set it up without major rocks & roots being under the sleeping area.

The kids are 8 and 10 years old. Old enough to treat things gently enough that the 40 denier mesh & fly of the SD Lightning is at about 50% sturdier than it needs to be. (I couldn't find any specs to translate the 1.1 oz/yd fly & 1 oz/yd netting for the HS tarptent into denier).

Also, the condensation on the SD Lightning is only a problem if they end up pressed against the side while they are sleeping or rub the sides / bump the ceiling when they are dressing. I'm hoping the higher ceiling and wider walls of a tarptent will fix those problems.

Also, the SD Lightning doesn't allow enough of a breeze for VA & MD's hot humid weather – especially when I have to close the fly zip at least 1/2 way since it looks like it "might" rain. On the other hand – the SD Lightning handles blowing rain & shifting wind very well. I'm hoping the mesh sidewalls with overhanging eaves of a tarptent will allow a breeze without creating problems during thunderstorms.

Do the tarptent's higher ceiling, wider footprint, and mesh walls protected by overhanging eaves work anything like I'm hoping ?

If I really just need a larger double wall tent – then does anyone have any advise about how the Big Agnes "Seedhouse" SL3 performs in the field compared to the new Big Agnes "Emerald Mountain" SL2 ?

Thanks.

Sounds to me like the Tarptent Rainshadow is the perfect tent for you–very roomy for 2, breezy, bug proof, rain protection and is the right weight.

The double rainbow is a huge tent. I think its big enough for 2 adults and 2 dogs or thereabouts. It has a very easy setup as well. I think it weighs in around 3ish.

"The double rainbow is a huge tent. I think its big enough for 2 adults and 2 dogs or thereabouts."

They'd have to be miniatures (dogs).
From a BPL review: Bathtub floor length 88 in (224 cm), width 48 in (122 cm), height 43 in (109 cm).

I wouldn't consider the Double Rainbow a "huge" tent for two by any stretch of the imagination — 48" width is tighter than many actually — although you can certainly sleep two inside — and park one dog in each vestibule…

I have one and have taken it on many treks. It sleeps two adults very comfortably inside with room to spare at either your head or foot (your choice).

If your dog(s) absolutely MUST go inside the tent with the two of you, the earlier poster is correct. they had better be really, teeny tiny.

It sounds like you might not have used a Tarptent- they're different than standard tents.

The floor on a standard tent goes straight up to create the sidewall of the tent. Not the case with Tarptents. Instead, the bathtub floor goes into mesh that is not vertical- instead it comes at an angle to meet the silnylon single wall. This creates far more headroom than a typical tent, increasing usable space. Sure, the bathtub floor isn't huge, but the amount of covered space and the "airiness" of the tent exceeds the size of the floor.

This is not the case in the side of the Rainbow, which go straight up, but it certainly is on the head and foot end. (The non-Rainbow Tarptents have this extra space on all sides.)

The cross pole at the top also increases usable space in a similar way to the cross pole of the MSR Hubba Hubba.

Remember, when considering the usable space of a tent, there's more than just the floor dimensions to consider.

Great space in the vestibules for dogs, but I think the claws would chew up the silnylon floor pretty quickly.

dj

By the way, the Big Agnes tents are small for their rated size. I reviewed the Seedhouse SL3 and I'd call that more of a 2.5. Having slept in the SL2, I'd call that a 1.5.

Tarptents are typically comfortable for their rating. My Squall 2 is comfy for 2 large adults and the Rainshadow 2 has slept 3 full grown men with comfort. This would not be the case is the Seedhouse tents. Great tents, but cramped.

By the way, you can find comprehensive reviews of the Seedhouse 2SL, 3SL, Sierra Designs Lightning, MSR Hubba Hubba, Tarptent Rainbow 2, Squall 2, and Rainshadow 2 on this site. Take a look- they are great reviews. I wrote several of them myself, actually.

The most comfortable of the double walls listed above is definitely the Hubba Hubba. That is a great tent. But I sold mine- the Squall 2 is a marvelous tent too. Now I use a Tarptent Rainshadow 2 or a Gossamer Gear/Tarptent Squall Classic. Both are marvelous shelters.

John G
I have the Rainbow and not the Double Rainbow, but I am familiar with the DR specs.
Tarptents are made from 30 denier silicon impregnated nylon.
For the two kids, the DR is more than big enough.
As for two adults, lengthwise if you don't play on the NBA it should be no problem but depending on your "belt size" it could be a bit tight width wise. However you would be still touching the mesh door and not the fly.
There is enough room in the vestibules for a decent size pack (x 2), but I tend to have mine inside to rest my "pillow" against it. This also stops direct wind hitting my head, butt allows air circulation above it.
I can only emphasize the importance of playing with the tent in your backyard (or someone else's…) prior to field use as I noticed that most of the few complaints about the Rainbows relate to bad pitching or site location.
Once you get the idea of low and high pitch, air circulation and how to optimize the bathtub floor, the Rainbows are great shelters.
Pay particular attention to seam-sealing and guy-out points. If you have lots of wrinkles or sagging fabric, your set up is wrong. The most common (minor) set up error is to have the pole ends too far in (towards the center) Lift each end out (pulling away from the floor) and it will sit better.
Franco

Doug,

It's hard to counterbalance the extra width of the SL3 against the more vertical walls of the Hubba Hubba to see which one seems "roomier" and easier to move around in since I can't find any stores with one locally. (For instance, I heard the Hubba Hubba was a lot narrower than the Lightning, but it looks like the SL3 has very sloping sidewalls so it may not feel any wider than the Lightning).

Also, I have no experience with single wall shelters, so I can't counterbalance their greater roominess & less suana-like atmosphere with their risks from windblown rain &/or condensation raining down from the inside. I'm only mildly worried about durability, but then again, the thinest material I've used is 40 denier, and I do have 8-12 year old kids (who are careful for their age, but still kids…)

Since you've used them all in the field: Do you think the SL3, the Hubba Hubba, the Rainshadow, or the Cloudburst would be the best for camping in condensation prone conditions and occaisional windy rain with 8 – 12 year old kids &/or inexperienced adults ?

ps: The Maryland / Virginia rain pattern is different from the short afternoon showers I read happen in the Sierras. The rain here usually happens around midnight (when it happens) and rains steadily for 4-6 hours at a medium rate. It's hard to predict whether it will rain since we have 70-100% humidity on most summer / fall days. The wind is generally only "medium" strong during the rain, so the rain generally only falls at an angle of 30-45 degrees away from vertical. However, the wind direction during the rain storm is usually 90 degrees different from what it was in the evening when I set up the shelter. I have a hard time guessing whether the wind will shift 90 degrees left or right though… Also, mild swirling / gusting wind patterns happen most of the time and during about half the rainstorms, the wind direction shifts 90 degrees for about 60-90 minutes approximately 3-4 times during the rain.

Thanks.

I've got the double rainbow and think it is a great tent. I'm 6'3" and I fit fine with my GF with me. I wouldn't want to be much taller though. For your kids, you might like the fact that it can be pitched free standing which allows you to move or rotate it depending on weather/ground conditions, and it has 2 vestibules so your kids can run in one side and out the other! I personally haven't had the condensation issues that several others have had, maybe I've just been lucky…
A friend of mine has the Hubba Hubba and I consider it a double walled version of my DR. As for the interior room of the Seedhouse series – another friend has the SL1 and sleeps him AND his girlfriend in it all the time – I've never inquired about his comfort level, but he's has never complained about it. Food for thought!

I should add that my entire DR setup comes in at 40.55 oz.