Wood Frame Pack

Gosh, that's beautiful,

I've gotten in the habit of nabbing old external frame packs if the price is right at garage sale and thrift stores, (building a small fleet to build new packbags for) but geesh, the weight and aesthetic of wood can't be beat.

Nice work!!

So first off, great pack, and I love the wood frame idea. If your sewing is bomber and strong, who cares how it looks?

Now on to the bad news . . . the shiny side of VX-21 RC should be on the inside of the pack (It's either the waterproof layer or a thin layer covering it, I'm not quite clear on which from reading the DP materials guide).

It won't make the pack fall apart or anything. But the waterproof layer will wear off faster through abrasion than if you had the dull side out.

Anyway, nothing you can do about it now and the pack will still work, but I thought you (and others) should know.

Keeping the PET laminate on the inside makes sense from a purely functional point of view(likely maintain waterproofness for longer), but having it on the outside LOOKS so much cooler!

Hmm, The Cascade Craftworks description for the X-Pac X21RC is:

"Dimension Polyant's Newest Pack fabric! Light, durable, flexible and waterproof . This X-Pac™ uses the same 210d face fabric as the VX21, but has a low-friction, thicker .5mil polyester film backing instead of woven polyester. 25% Lighter than VX21 While maintaining similar tear strength"

The shiny side is definitely lower friction than the non-shiny, it seemed to make sense that it would go on the outside to reduce wear. Others have made the same choice, http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=100975

I would be glad to hear more feedback on this, not that there is anything I can do about it now.

Good question,

It seems to me that the PET laminate is more likely to receive abrasion/holes while facing the outside.

Since the PET provides waterproofness, holes/tears in this will lead to leaks in the bag.

It may be lower friction than the 210 denier nylon face fabric, but the woven nylon face fabric is much more durable than a .5mil PET Laminate.

Looks great from here George. Any plans for version #2?

Wow, George, that looks awesome! Glad it carries well, that is the most important part.

I think you sewed the X21RC correctly. It would be weird having the dull side out

"Dimension Polyant's Newest Pack fabric! Light, durable, flexible and waterproof . This X-Pac™ uses the same 210d face fabric as the VX21, but has a low-friction, thicker .5mil polyester film backing instead of woven polyester. 25% Lighter than VX21 While maintaining similar tear strength"

Aha – I didn't realize that PET and polyester were the same thing. So yeah, the difference between VX21 and VX21RC is that the regular version has a .25mil polyester/PET film covered by woven polyester, and the RC version has a .5mil film and no woven layer on the inside. So shiny side in or out depends on what you're going for – I personally would protect the waterproof layer as much as possible. I like having a waterproof pack.

I had this same thing happen with ballistic nylon when I first started making bike gear – I assumed that it would go shiny side out and made quite a few bags that way. They worked just fine, but really its best to go shiny side in, dull side out on most coated fabrics.

Super pretty George. I'm curious about what wood you used, and how you shaped it.

Thanks. Here is the thread for the frame:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=99890

Thanks for the link, missed that the first time. Gorgeous work on the joints and finish.

I LIKE it, very much.

I use an external frame somewhat like that. Carries just beautifully.

Your sewing might be crap – but you MADE it, and it works.

cheers

Fantastically awesome pack. I was wondering how it would turn out after I saw the frame thread. Great job.

First, big thanks for the positive feedback. Even though I don't find sewing fun, on the whole the project was and I am pretty happy with how it came out. Roger, your DIY page on Bushwalking NSW was a big help. Some for guesstimating frame dimensions but mostly for encouraging me to go for it.

The one change I made was to move the tie down point for the roll top forward on the pack.

The original I styled after my Circuit but didn't like how it pulled into the back. This way it seems to tighten up much neater.

Thanks again.

Update:

If anyone was wondering about the long term durability of this light a wood frame, the answer is in, and it is not good. It did fine on a couple of trips last year, including one of two weeks, so I felt pretty comfortable heading out for eight days in the Uintas last week. On day one I had the straps loose while I bent for water, the load shifted and came up with a horrible crackling sound. The frame had broke on one side near the bottom of the bag. I was able to splint it with a tent stake but the end was near. Even though I was as gentle as I could be over the next couple of days one of the bottom corners and the other side of the frame both broke. I think the wood got brittle sitting in the garage over the winter. By day four the repairs were over and it was time for Plan B. While sitting out a thunderstorm I cut away the frame, did a little sewing and had a rucksack to finish the trip with. It actually carried well and it was nice not to be worrying about the frame anymore.

It was a fun project and a wood frame could still work, but it would have to be beefier. I don’t know that I will be building another one, mostly this project was about seeing if an idea would work. I still like the bag and will probably play with that, trying to work some support into what I have.

V2: steamed bamboo frame.

Cheers

George,

This whole pack was just awesome.

That’s unfortunately that the frame didn’t hold up. I’m wondering if you noticed, or can guess as to which failed first…the wood or the epoxy?

I’m just guessing that it’s the epoxy but I have little to back up that theory…do you think a wood hardener or poly finish (to prevent it from drying out) would’ve helped to preserve the strength over time? Or maybe it’s something like the wood grain swelling with the weather changes (humidity/temperature) caused the joints to loosen up?

—————————

I’m obviously interested in the backpacking discussion but it’s also got me curious about how this applies to history as well…our species used has been using wooden frame-packs for hundreds of years, if not thousands, and I wonder if this means that those frames had to be constantly repaired/replaced.

1. It was the wood that broke, not the epoxy, but near the joints where the stresses were focused. A good sealer might have helped but honestly I think the main side members were just too light. 25% more wood on those two pieces and more fiberglass wrapping around the joints probably would have done the trick.

This has been interesting to me. I like the aesthetics of the pack. It makes me think… Could there be a market out there for “artisanal packs,” well-crafted with wood or bamboo frames? Sort of like some companies are making with bikes now (http://www.calfeedesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Bamboo-FixxiePrint.png).

i’ve usually had the sense that most on this forum think it’s silly to take aesthetics into consideration at all when backpacking, yet the appreciative comments on your design say otherwise… Well, whether there’s a market or not, I’m definitely not going to be the one to start making them. Kudos on your creation, even if it didn’t hold up for long!

I like this idea.

It seems like the wood frame would be a lot more durable for the same weight if it was shaped more like the frame in the seek outside packs- fewer members of larger size.  It could be laid up with the main part in a U shape, and one crossbar near shoulder level tenoned in.  You’d probably want follow the contours of your back a little less, so that you wouldn’t have cross grain splitting, at least the way I’m thinking it could be constructed.

I like the idea, but when I’m ready to make a frame pack, I’ll probably still go for aluminum. . . failure mode is usually better, in that they bend more before they break.  Hope you get the frame beefed up so you can use your pack again though.

Bent wood chairs are shaped by heating appropriate sized branches of wood in steam.

Would this be a technique that could be translated into making a wood pack frame with the strength needed ?

It was a beautiful frame for sure.

Epoxy laminated bamboo is suppose to be pretty strong and durable for the weight, and looks really nice too.

Best of luck on a new frame George.

Thanks for the feed back guys. Jo, I do think there could be at least a small niche for a company making wood or bamboo frames. I was shooting for UL (and ended up with Stupid UL I am afraid), it wouldn’t take too much more weight to make a frame that would be robust enough to last, no matter what the technique. There is something inherently appealing about natural materials and the hikers that appreciated it on the trail didn’t comment on the weight but on how cool it looked.

A lot of good thoughts on technique and materials. Bamboo would probably work great, and look awesome, and whether that or wood steaming would work well, But if I do another over the winter I will most likely stick with the same technique, wood laminate with some changes. The main rails with have another layer but the biggest  difference would be not cutting into them as much when attaching the other members. Maybe mortise and tenon instead of notches so there would be a continuity to the wood and more strength. We will see, but if I do have another go at it I will be sure to share it here. Thanks again.

Sad to hear about the frame’s premature end.  But glad to hear you might do another.  This was a really cool pack!

In regards to the notches versus mortis and tenon, I wonder if you really need either?  Could you just put them on top of each other, use wood glue and then wrap something around it for strength?  Even just some thin cord that you then coat in seam grip or something like that.  I’m inspired by that commercial for FiberFix that’s going viral right now (although I don’t know if FiberFix actually works like they say it does, and it would probably be expensive).