Pad Slip On Sil-Nylon Tent Floors

[Robin McKay]

I understand the procedure of painting silicon "strips" across the tent floor to stop sleeping pad slippage.
But, will painting Stripes under the actual pad work just as well?
I read somewhere that after seam sealing his tent, the said person applied lines of left-over seam sealer to the underside of his pad. Anybody had any experience here??
Seems to me to be easier than doing the tent floor!

[Roger Caffin]

> I understand the procedure of painting silicon "strips" across the tent floor to stop sleeping pad slippage.
> But, will painting Stripes under the actual pad work just as well?

Not in my experience.
You see, the surface of silnylon fabric is slippery, and no matter what you do to your pad, the silnylon will stay slippery.
It is only when you put thin strips of silicone sealant onto the silnylon floor that you get something grippy there. The sealant will adhere to the silnylon quite well and present a 'sticky' surface.

Others may have different experiences. ymmv.

Cheers

[Miguel Arboleda]

Roger, I can't seem to get the logic of your explanation straight. If painting the sealant strips on the silnylon floor is what keeps the pad from sliding, what difference does it make if the sealant is painted on the floor or the pad? In both cases it is the sealant which keeps the pad from moving, not the silnyln floor. Since the sealant sticks to silnylon why wouldn't it work just as well on the pad? In my experience just folding onto itself a piece of silnylon fabric painted with a strip of sealant causes the fabric to stick, even after some time curing. I would think a sealant-painted pad would work the same way. No?

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Miguel

> If painting the sealant strips on the silnylon floor is what keeps the pad from sliding, what difference does it make if the sealant is painted on the floor or the pad?
OK, now this is MY experience. ymmv with a different brand of silicone sealant.
WET uncured sealant will bond to the silicone coating on a silnylon floor. It will then present a sticky surface to the pad (or the world).
But cured silicone sealant on a pad does not stick very well to the silicone coating on sylnylon. The slippery surface of the silnylon persists.
OK – the first time you plonk the pad down on the silnylon it may try to bond – which is most undesirable. I am assuming we are past that stage.

> In my experience just folding onto itself a piece of silnylon fabric painted with a strip of sealant causes the fabric to stick, even after some time curing.
Well, this is where you may get different results from me. If you are talking about the strip of sealant sticking to itself when folded, sure, that can happen.
If you mean the 'cured' sealant may stick to clean silnylon, then we have to look a little more closely. I know the label on a cartridge of sealant usually says something like 'touch-dry in one hour', but this is misleading. Full in-depth curing takes at least 3 days, and in that time the sealant can still stick to the silicone surface of silnylon. The polymer chemistry is a little tricky here… :-)

I usually leave the sealant to cure for 4 days – the tent stays erected in a spare room. Then I dust it over with baby powder as well. Even so, I usually have to carefully peel the silnylon tent open when I go to use it the first time anyhow. But desert dust is wondeful for passivating sealant – dunno why.

But you may be using a different silicone sealant with different properties. This is quite possible: the number of silicone polymers used is huge. So all this is MY experience.

Cheers

[Miguel Arboleda]

Thanks Roger. I haven't actually tried the pad sealant idea yet (mainly because I only have one pad and don't want to risk making a mistake, but I guess I can always try the idea out with a spare piece of nylon), my questions before were all just conjecture. Your explanation makes sense now if I consider my sealants that have been cured for more than a year or so. It really would be nice to find a more efficient, lighter, and useful way of keeping from sliding around on a silnylon floor, especially on small, sloping sites in the mountains.

[EndoftheTrail]

All I know is that painting seam sealant (McNett Silnet) stripes onto the silnylon floor works! I haven't experimented, but I can see why painting on floor should be more effective than painting on pad (in other words, the latter might work too — but the former is more effective).

1. Painting on floor — the sealant is BONDED to the floor — absolutely no movement there. With the pad, friction between sealant and the pad's regular nylon is what keeps the pad from sliding.

2. Painting on pad — here, the sealant is BONDED to the pad, so friction between sealant and silnylon floor is what keeps the pad from sliding.

Knowing that silnylon is so much more slippery, friction between sealant and pad's nylon is likely superior to friction between sealant and the floor's silnylon.

[Siegmund Beimfohr]

One caution on the sealant used. I also had the idea of applying the sealant to the pad and not the tent floor to prevent slippage. I use a Thermarest ProLite 4 and, not sure what to do, contacted the manufacturer for guidance. Their response:

"Thank you for contacting Cascade Designs Inc.
The best solution is to pickup some Seam Grip, a urethane seam sealer, from a local outfitter and place small dots of it on the bottom of the pad itself. This will help provide some friction for the pad to the tent floor without making the pad sticky."

Note that you should NOT use silicone sealant, but polyurethane.

Roger,

If we're talking about a urethane to silnylon contact, will this result in sufficient friction? I haven't had a chance to try this yet but, if it would actually reduce slippage, would be easier and lighter than painting the tent floor.

[Vick Hines]

Seigmund,

The polyurethane will stick to the polyurethane-coated fabric of the inflatable sleeping pad better than the silicone will. That is why CD recommended it, I suspect.

On the other hand, if you want to make your silicone impregnated tent floor sticky, use a silicone sealant.

There are many conflicting recommendations about how best to spread silicone sealant. Some recommend thinning it with mineral spirits or some similar solvent. That does not work, according to the technical support people at DUCO. They recommend, and I have had good luck with, Permatex Flowable Silicone Windshield Sealant. It is thin enough to spread thinly, so it does not add a lot of weight. And it is stronger than McNett's Silnet. By that, I mean that it does not tear as easily. Regardless of what sealant produce you use, place the tent floor on a smooth surface and use a plastic squeegee, like the kind used in automobile body work, to spread the sealant as thinly as possible. The technique is to use the blade of the squeegee like a knife, as if you were cutting the sealant off.

[Siegmund Beimfohr]

Vick,
Thanks for your detailed info on floor treating. I had seen the reference to the Permatex before (probably from you) and intend to try that for general seam sealing.

The reason I was interested in treating the pad underside is that I have no problem with the slippery tent floor except where the pad sits. With relatively few spots of PU sealer on the pad bottom, and then with my weight on the pad, I figured that if there is any "stickiness" between the PU spots and the silnylon floor, the pad would stay put.

Hence, my question about whether or not the PU sealer actually does "stick" under these conditions. It would be a whole lot easier to put 10 or 12 small circles of PU sealer in two rows on the pad underside than to do the tent floor. I'm sure that the total weight would also be significantly less. I'm leaning to trying this before doing the floor itself.

[Roger Caffin]

> If we're talking about a urethane to silnylon contact, will this result in sufficient friction?
Don't know, I haven't tried it. Stripes on the floor of the tent wear easy to apply when I was sealing the rest of the seams.

I would be cautious about the advice from CD, as I suspect that the person replying may not have a lot of experience with silicones and silnylon. I am sure they know lots about PU coatings.

Cheers

[Sara C]

I have 3 HS Tarptents that get used on a regular basis. What I have noticed is that through regular usage, the slippage goes away. Brand new, very slick. I advise you to carry a lightweight level for the first few trips! I never liked the idea of adding anything to the tent or pad to prevent slippage. Pads used are Thermarest Prolite and the new Montbell pads.

Jon

[Ross Bleakney]

Another alternative is to use a thin closed cell pad (like a GG thin light). I then put the open cell pad on top and it doesn't slip much. This adds a bit of warmth and cushioning as well.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Robin,

I've put silicon caulk dots on the bottom of my Thermarest in big diamond & X patterns. It works great in my TT Contrail.

As a bit of dirt/grit may stick to silicon caulk patterns I figured it's easier to get it off my pad than off the tent floor.

Eric

[Richard Girvan]

I had to do the tent floor and the pad .

[Miguel Arboleda]

I was just thinking that an alternative way to use sealant on the floor but not add too much weight would be to paint on the tent floor a small patch of sealant just where you plan to use the sleeping pad and not the entire floor. That way you can save a lot of weight.

[EndoftheTrail]

Miguel:

Don't paint an entire tent floor — or even an entire area. Just paint a few lines across the floor area where you would position your pad. :)

[victor larivee]

I thought i just found a new solution for the slipper pad problem with out messing up the floor or pad with a coat of sil net, so I wanted to share it with all of you. Before posting I did a quick search and, the first post i looked at showed i only found out something that somebody else already found.
YES GG thin pad is a great option for stopping the slippery pad problem. Nice one Ross

[Andy F]

Putting polyurethane (Seam Grip) on the pad hasn't worked well for me either.

Thinning GE Silicone II outdoor caulk with mineral spirits has worked well in coating both sides of the floor on three Tarptents. I shake it to mix and apply it with a gloved hand. It's certainly not perfectly diluted and mixed, but it works. Start with a very clean floor. If there's dirt or body oils on the floor, clean with rubbing alcohol first.

I use this general procedure:
http://jwbasecamp.com/Articles/Silnylon1/index.html

It does add some weight, but the resulting better sleep is worth it to me.

[BlackHatGuy]

I solved this problem once and for all. I set up my shelter, and then simply superglued my pad right in the middle of the tent floor where I wanted it. Absolutely no slip whatsoever! And since I always packed my pad and tent inside my pack, this doesn't take up any more room than each piece did separately. I deflate the pad, then roll up the tent with the glued pad inside. At camp, I simply unroll the tent and set it up – the pad is already there, right where I want it! Works like a charm.

Boy, I miss April.

[Franco Darioli]

Douglas
You have also missed the EggTent thread at Backpaker (now deleted, BRING IT back !)

Anyway, this is how I do it :

http://www.youtube.com/user/francodarioli?feature=mhee#p/u/17/WPYPN3CeQCI
It works for me…
Franco
Here it is :
the EggTent
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtYy5vkmDHQ
you can thank me later…..

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

If you do paint the floor with diluated Silicone caulk, make sure to use the low odor mineral spirits as the regular mineral spirits leave quite a smell. Even the low odor ones leave a strong smell that's annoying for a few days so you really want to air it out before you use it.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

So, I had a problem with my TT Rainshadow II. I painted two 4" wide strips across the width of the tent (GE Silicone II diluted with white gas). While on a sloped surface, my pad kept slipping. I talked to Henry about this and he recommended that I paint vertical strips on my pad and that seems to have solved the problem.

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