Feet: not dry, but warm

[Jon Solomon]

I have trouble keeping my feet warm during prolonged cold rain episodes.
Wet 3-season conditions around or below 10 degrees centigrade.
This isn't about wetness. Long ago I gave up trying to have feet stay dry.
But the problem I've had with open mesh runners is that constant cold water ingress results in frigid feet.
I've read a ton of other people's experiences. Could I be the only who gets cold feet easily?
I haven't tried neoprene. Although I don't like them, Gore-Tex lined shoes keep coming back into my gear list. NOT because they keep my feet dry (they don't), but because they keep cold rain water out.
Signed looking-for-new-ideas.

[Christopher Nelson]

Finished up a 3 day mountain hike a few weeks ago with a buddy, constant rain, daytime highs of 42F/5C, tons of water crossings. By the middle of the second day our feet were completely soaked. I was wearing smartwool socks and waterproof Keen hiking shoes. My buddy (wearing similar socks and shoes) ended up cutting plastic bags and wearing them under his socks, simply to keep the water that had already been warmed close to the skin. My feet were pretty cold and unhappy most of the hike; he seemed to do better with the plastic bag setup. I think his skin took a bigger beating than mine, but at least his feet weren't cold.

Next fall I'm very likely going to try out a pair of waterproof sock liners to try to achieve the same effect, but with a little more texture than a plastic bag.

[Ken Thompson]

I was wearing the thinner style of wool socks. Cold feet and they wouldn't dry. Thicker socks were warmer and my feet would actually dry them out because they were warmer.

[David Chenault]

If you like your mesh shoes thin neo socks are worth a try. There's also nothing wrong with selecting a more solid-fabric, slower draining non-Gtex shoe for these conditions, as it will tend to be warmer. Unless your feet are unusually prone to maceration issues there is no real downside. Counter intuitive though it may sound wearing taller WPB gaiters with non-waterproof shoes and socks can be helpful. They'll stop water/snow ingress from above and keep your calves warmer, which for me helps with warm feet.

Neo socks, moderately draining shoes, and tall gaiters are my preferred system right now for local conditions, when the weather is cold and rainy and there are lots of knee deep and deeper stream crossings to defeat WPB boots and socks.

[Jon Solomon]

It does seem like I ought to give neoprene a try.
Does anybody else beside NRS make neoprene socks that are seam-sealed?
Is that even worth considering?

I remember that I tried, a long time ago in Taiwan, using VBL socks, with only mixed results.
I always use a short gaiter, too. Actually, something like what Zpacks makes might be good, since the gaiter covers most of the lacing area on the shoe.

[Owen McMurrey]

"This isn't about wetness. Long ago I gave up trying to have feet stay dry."
What's the problem with using a waterproof shoe, then?
Sounds like the open mesh runners are what you don't like. They certainly flopped for me when giving them another shot last fall. Feet got wet several times from shallow stream crossings, and weren't warm when I had to hike in and out of deeper water due to flooding later in the trip.
That was in CO, and they sucked there just as much as they suck here in the South where it can be wet even when it's "dry"-like last week when I took this picture while skirting the edge of the trail(that being the part that's underwater, as low or downhill sections often get when it rains here, too).

My friend had on ventilated shoes, while I had on GoreTex ones with gaiters. That was taken before 2pm, 4 hours before we made camp. 10 miles later she still had wet socks, shoes and feet, while I slept in the same socks I hiked in all day because they were dry. The waterproof vs vented "issue" has always seemed pretty straightforward to me…

I have a couple pair of the 2mm NRS wetsocks, and they've worked by themselves in cool water(I like hiking up streambeds), and with lightweight merino under them in low temps. They're bulkier than the .5mm Hydroskins that are intended for warm weather/cool water, but I've been able to use them with both my hiking shoes and water shoes of the same size without them being uncomfortable. Those might work for you, too. They're certainly cheaper than another pair of shoes!

[Andy F]

What works for me in those conditions is:
mesh trail runners
Rocky GoreTex socks
medium weight merino wool socks
polypropylene liner socks

Feet bottoms treated with Certain Dri antiperspirant for a week before the trip and nightly during. That's because the bottoms are what sweats the most, and because they don't dry well due to lack of ventilation.

If I occasionally have to wade through water deeper than my sock tops, I do so in the shoes only.

If I often have to wade through water deeper than my sock tops, I just let water seep in and wring out my wool socks once I'm done with wading. That might not be until making camp for the night. My feet might get cold, but they're warmer than if cold water is easily flowing through my socks.

[James holden]

i too use WPB runners … i simply find a pair that is mostly mesh and has minimal leather/uppers …

your feet will get damp, but they will stay WARM …. as you dont constantly have water squishing in and out of the shoes … and what wetness there is warms up quickly when moving

folks also use plastic bags or WPB socks … its your call

most definitely not the "accepted" BPL wisdom

;)

[Roger Caffin]

> most definitely not the "accepted" BPL wisdom
I can't agree there.
I tink 'BPL wisdom' (real wisdom, not popular mishmash) is 'whatever works, but no lighter than that'.
:-)

Cheers

[Rick Reno]

Non waterproof shoes that drain well and thick wool sox work!for me- usually old fashioned ragg sox or REI expedition weight. The sox get and stay wet, but not cold; and since they're already wet they don't cool off much with prolonged or repeated soaking.

[b willi jones]

im in New Zealand,, and wet feet seem to be part of the game. i wear NB trail shoes which have heaps of mesh (and are the most comfortable shoes ive ever had,, i have a few pair and wear them all the time apart from work,, hiking, down town, and to play volleyball in) because of the mesh, my feet get wet real quick even from wet grass,, but i have found that fairly thick wool socks from Bridgedale (trekker model)to be very good at keeping my feet warm. i never take shoes or socks of for stream/river crossings so my feet are initially soaked and cold from the water but warm up real quick once im going again. never had blister issues either

[Tim Skidmore]

Especially compared to gortex socks. They're only $15 at MEC so I think I'll give them a try. I don't think they'll be very durable though.

[Joel Benford]

Sealskinz waterproof/breathable socks do this for me. They're like a merino liner, inside a shell material (called "porelle"), inside a nylon hiking sock.

You get a feeling of dampness inside them, either because:
– they leak
– there's condensation or un-evaporated sweat
– water just gets in the top of the sock
– they're kind of squishy with the layers sliding around and you're mistking it for damp and imagining one of the above

But they're considerably warmer than the same weight of wool sock when it's wet and windy. With part-mesh shoes, I don't get the jolt of cold walking into dewy grass that I would get in my plain merino socks. And I have the least insulating version.

I would imagine that neoprene + merino liner is like Sealskinz on steroids, but I've not needed that whilst hiking in Britain.

[Mike M]

I've tried numerous iterations of combos in wet/cool weather and I always come back to thick wool socks and more recently tall, thick ones combined w/ "normal" trail runners and gaiters

my feet stay plenty warm while on the move, when I get to camp I'm out of the wet socks, into dry ones and pull on plastic bags over them so I can continue to wear my shoes while tending to chores

[Tim Drescher]

Does anyone know much of, or own the Camaro Titanium 0.5mm Seamless Waterproof Socks? Can anyone speak to their quality? Durability?

[kevperro .]

I repeat this method over and over. Thick wool socks are awesome for me in all weather and for me…. they cut down on blister issues too.

I don't like the current thinner merino wool socks. Give me the old school thick ragg wool ones any day of the week.

They last longer too. I hiked half the AT in 1994 a single pair of REI wool socks. I used them after that trip too and these days living in the PNW I exclusively use as thick of a sock as I can find.

I used to use all leather boots…. not because they were better for my feet but because I was cheap and they lasted longer. Now days I use non-waterproof lighter boots that dry faster but get wet faster in snow or rain. If I were doing exclusively snow/winter hiking I'd probably migrate back to all leather for its ability to repulse water longer. For hiking in 3-season weather I'd rather have a boot/shoe that will get wet but drain and dry faster. I'm not worried about frostbite and it is mainly a comfort/foot management thing.

[Matt V]

I have some 5mm neoprene socks, NeoSport brand. I use them for caving and canyoneering. They are not seam sealed, but they slow the flow of water, and I can literally walk through 50-60 degree F water for hours and my feet just feel pleasantly cool. If I'm walking through a lot of water I usually wear a wetsuit because there may be deeper pools or waterfalls, so that helps keep my whole body warm. If the rest of my body was cold, I'm sure my feet would be cold with this setup.

It takes about 30 seconds for them to fill with water through the seams. You could seam seal them yourself if you want them to be more waterproof, but sometimes it's nice that they automatically get flushed out with fresh water, and when I'm out of the water it's able to drain out as I walk. I usually end up hiking a few hours in them because I don't bother to bring a regular pair of socks for the approach and exit. I probably wouldn't want to hike all day in them, though.

I wear them with no other socks, and 5mm is a lot to fit in a boot even though it doesn't sound like much. Consider getting thinner ones and seam sealing them or getting dedicated footwear if you want to wear them with other socks, too.

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