New Cuben Mid: Locus Gear Hapi (11.3oz in stuff sack)
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Apr 9, 2015 at 11:19 am #1327795
Edit: Here's mine!
Locus Gear is officially taking orders for its new Cuben pyramid shelter, the Khufu Hapi, or just 'Hapi'. Definitely an interesting name as apparently Hapi = happy, but a lot of Japanese culture probably strikes 'westerners' as weird (Nintendo Wii???).
At any rate, here are the details:
-Cuben CTF3 (CT2E.18, ~.75oz/sqyd)
-11.3 oz including stuff sack (11.46oz with extra dyneema tie-outs and guylines)
-Approx. 71" x 104" x 51" (H)
-YKK Aquaguard zipper
-$423 at current exchange rate (51000Y)
-Also available in silnylon, ~16.9oz, $272.
-Hapi Mesh Inner (silnylon, but also available in PU taffeta or PU ripstop)
-Approx 63" x 94.5" x 51" (H)
-Full rainbow zipper
-Total weight for mid + inner = 27.2oz – pretty darn light!
I had been corresponding with Locus Gear because I wanted something bigger than the normal Khufu, which is more of a 1 person shelter, but smaller than their Khafra, which is a bit too big and can't be used in "A-frame" mode with two trekking poles. It happened that they had been prototyping this new shelter and it's designed to be a true two person shelter as the specs attest to. It can be used with one trekking pole in the normal center mounted position or two poles with their pole jack system (DPTE) in an inverted V configuration.
To me, this is a lot more practical than the MLD Duomid XL, which is quite similar in specs. The inner mesh is 63" wide vs only 48" with the Duomid XL mesh. The D-XL and Hapi mesh inners are about the same height, but the D-XL outer is taller, so will give more volume and slightly steeper walls.
The other benefit of this vs. the normal Khufu is that the doors are on the short side where either your head or feet will go. This means no crawling over each other to get out of the shelter when needed, which is a big concern in my case with my wife.
From what other users have said, Locus Gear shelters are impeccably built in terms of quality, so I am looking forward to this one. At $425 it's substantially lower cost than the $675 ultamid and $680 D-XL, which are similar but definitely not apples to apples. This is just another option from another maker.
Hapi Inner Mesh
Hapi Sil + Inner
Apr 9, 2015 at 12:12 pm #2190567Zakary ParontoBPL Member
I like zipper placement on the short sideApr 9, 2015 at 12:27 pm #2190571Katherine .BPL Member
What appeals to me about the Locus Gear 'mids is the slightly lower height than MLD. Only need poles that go to 130, so the BD carbon-corks (max 135cm) don't need any extra extender, unless you get the "DTPE" thing for inverted V set-up.Apr 9, 2015 at 12:50 pm #2190581Hiker 9BPL Member
@hiker9Locale: Northern California
Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Sounds interesting. The $423 does not include the mesh liner? Did they quote the liner cost if not included?Apr 9, 2015 at 12:53 pm #2190582
$214 for the mesh inner.Apr 9, 2015 at 1:36 pm #2190593Ethan A.BPL Member
@mountainwalkerLocale: SF Bay Area & New England
This is the mid I've been waiting for – light enough for one, big enough for two and door access for both occupants. No being stepped on or stepping on someone else to get out. More and better sleep. Amen.
How much weight do you think could be saved if you could eliminate 3 out of the 4 mesh walls of the inner? It will definitely increase interior space, but wondering how much weight it would save as I'd like to find out if Locus Gear will make a bathtub floor with just a few inches of mesh above the waterproof walls that will attach to the inside of the walls with velcro patches or a velcro strip, and a mesh door that will velcro in behind the outer fly door.Apr 9, 2015 at 1:59 pm #2190598
So, I see that this shelter is initially compared to the Duomid XL and the Ultamid 2, which are both single pole designs. Though, both of those shelters are quite a bit bigger. Duomid XL is as tall as a supermid and just shorter on one side, ultamid 2 is also quite a bit taller and wider than the hapi.
The big comparison would be to a normal Cuben Duomid. Similar in price, much closer in size. Hapi is wider but shorter…duomid taller but narrower. Which one would I pick? The Hapi…I think the side zipper makes much more since than the duomid's and much better for 2 users. Heck, I think better for 1 user too.
I don't see an advantage that the duomid would hold over this design…maybe someone could enlighten me…I might be not thinking of something.
However….a notable comparison should be between this and the duplex tarp (not tent). Both weigh the same in .74oz cuben…around 11 oz.
The duplex is a two pole design. Yes…it would catch more wind, but its also structurally supported twice as much (tarp tension is spread between two trekking poles instead of one). I think its a great comparison b/c they are really close in height (48" duplex vs 50" hapi), though the duplex is wider by quite a bit (b/c of the vestibules).
Duplex is a bit cheaper ($390 currently). I think the main difference is interior living space. Duplex has it beat by quite a bit. With the two pole design, you simply have a ton of "sitting up" space inside the tarp. And you get two vestibules. With the Hapi and two people you won't have much at all useable vestibule space inside the shelter with you….just a strip a few inches wide of space on the sides of you. And with no pole between the two users…you are free to use double quilts to save more weight.
Personally I would lean towards the duplex.Apr 9, 2015 at 2:16 pm #2190603
I am not sure about the mesh/bathtub floor question, but Locus Gear definitely does custom work so it could be an option for those that don't want the full inner. I've seen some inners that they've made that are 3 solid walls and 1 mesh wall.
I agree that the DXL and Ultamid aren't directly comparable, which is why I said it wasn't apples to apples. However, everyone I've asked said the Duomid isn't really a true 2 person shelter and neither is the Khufu. Thus, the duomid XL and Hapi are both the next sizes up and are ostensibly two person shelters. I say ostensibly because MLD's inner net XL isn't really a 2 person size IMO. I guess you could probably have LG make a custom 1/2 or 3/4 inner mesh or solid wall inner like they've done before.Apr 9, 2015 at 2:25 pm #2190609
You said this ->
I guess you could probably take the Hapi CTF3 and use the Khufu inner mesh and have a similar setup to the DXL with a vestibule.
I'm not following you there…could you reexplain that? I don't see how that inner would work with the hapi nor where you are getting the vestibule space…Apr 9, 2015 at 2:44 pm #2190618
"I'm not following you there…could you reexplain that? I don't see how that inner would work with the hapi nor where you are getting the vestibule space…"
Actually, the door on the Khufu is on the long side, so that wouldn't work, or would be quite awkward anyway!
I've seen some pictures of Locus Gear 3/4 and 1/2 mesh inners, so I would imagine you could use one of those with the Hapi if they'd make one. They also do eVent inners for high elevation from what I've seen, too.
I like to duplex, but it's a little too small for two (again, going off of other users' feedback). At only 45" wide, it's the same issue for me as the Khufu inner (53") since we use a wide (25") and normal (20" mat). I'm not a fan of the open floor tarp/mid shelters since I live next to the Sierra and mosquitoes and flies are big problems (no bivies either!). I'd have to move up to the Triplex and that's about $695 or $710 if using the same .75oz cuben. I think you'd get more livable space for two with the triplex + vestibules, but IMO mids are a better foul weather option with snow loading and being able to pitch the edges flush with the ground. I haven't seen a duplex or triplex pitched that way… is it possible?Apr 9, 2015 at 2:56 pm #2190622
Here are a couple pics of a black Khufu (smaller than Hapi) witha "2/3 inner".
Image of the white cuben (3 colors available – white, black, green) Khufu
And lastly, the metalized cuben Khufu, which is not available as of yet due to supply.
These pics are to show colors/options but are not pics of the Hapi version shelter.Apr 9, 2015 at 3:43 pm #2190628Dan DurstonBPL Member
@dandydanLocale: Canadian Rockies
The extra 8" of width and placing the door on the end should make this much better for two than the Khufu. However, I prefer 2 pole mids for two occupants for the extra headroom. A single pole mid is ideal for one occupant. For a solo occupant, I like the Khufu better with the side door and lower weight.Apr 9, 2015 at 3:55 pm #2190632
Do you mean two poles center mounted, like the HMG Ultamid? Or two poles in A frame mode?Apr 9, 2015 at 3:59 pm #2190634Patrick BakerBPL Member
I wonder if he took the chance to address some of the cons:
– Ineffective vent
– Perimeter reinforcement material
– #3 main zip
listed in your review, or does he know about them (or care):Apr 9, 2015 at 4:03 pm #2190635Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
is #3 main zip too small?
I had #3 on similar tent and after a while it broke, so replaced it with #5. I'm thinking that's probably better, but the #3 lasted a long time.Apr 9, 2015 at 4:18 pm #2190640
"I wonder if he took the chance to address some of the cons:
– Ineffective vent
– Perimeter reinforcement material
– #3 main zip
listed in your review, or does he know about them (or care):
-Not sure about the #3 zipper. I've never had problems with #3 zippers, but who knows.
-I asked about the vent. I wanted more ventilation than on the Khufu, and this model comes standard with a much larger vent (same size as their largest mid) so that might alleviate condensation issues, but that will be tested.
-Added dyneema reenforced square panels to all the tie-outs, so that should be fixed.Apr 9, 2015 at 4:25 pm #2190643
I'm sure Dan is referring to 2 poles mids…ala duplex or Shangri la 2. And yes, I do agree with him….the head room is much better on models like those (I have both…and a cuben version of the sl2 here -> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=92984 ).
Shangrila 2 is more like an a-frame, though easier to pitch and fully protected.Apr 9, 2015 at 4:51 pm #2190651Ralph WoodBPL Member
@visualscapesLocale: Northern CA
I had an email exchange with Locus a couple weeks ago asking about a Cuben Hapi, and it is possible to pitch with two poles. You can use pole jacks or their own DPTE.
From their site. " In addition, the optional parts DPTE makes inner space more comfortable and allow 2 persons to use.
*You need to prepare a pair of trekking pole which is adjustable to 135cm to use Hapi with DPTE."Apr 9, 2015 at 5:12 pm #2190658Dan DurstonBPL Member
@dandydanLocale: Canadian Rockies
"Do you mean two poles center mounted, like the HMG Ultamid? Or two poles in A frame mode?"
I mean two poles used in some creative manner to increase headroom, not in an inverted V for unintrusive support. A-frames are better for two occupants than single pole mids, but they're still mediocre for headroom with two. More creative shelters like the TarpTent SS2 and maybe Sierra Designs Tensegrity tend to be a lot more livable.
"I wonder if he took the chance to address some of the cons…listed in your review"
Locus Gear was very receptive to my comments. They've now added an apex hang loop for an inner and I believe they are going to offer a solo sized net inner.
We talked about the reinforcement material a bit. They acknowledged my concerns about differences in stretch, but they don't want to switch to using a heavier grade of nylon around the perimeter because of worries that it's not strong enough for bartacking the stake out points to. I don't understand this, as several makers bartack to nothing but silnylon. Bartackking to silnylon + 210D nylon reinforcement is very beefy IMO. I just made a tarp of silnylon reinforced with 70D nylon and I consider those guyouts quite beefy.
I don't think the vent or #3 zip are going to change. Perhaps that's just as well. Buy a Locus Gear mid if you want a lighter shelter for normal usage, or buy an MLD mid if you want something more overbuilt (#5 zip, stronger reinforcement, bigger vent). Snipping the netting out of the vent will help a lot too. One could even enlarge the vent by themselves, as the hood is quite generous. Perhaps I'll do this.
"Added dyneema reenforced square panels to all the tie-outs, so that should be fixed."
Are you sure the perimeter tie-outs have both? The website says they use PVC and dyneema, but I don't think they mean at the same spots. As far as I can tell from the website, the perimeter ones appear to still be PVC coated vinyl, while the higher up ones are 210D Dyneema nylon.Apr 9, 2015 at 6:22 pm #2190688Ito JakuchuBPL Member
I think the front entry is very nice if you are often with two people.
I think the side entry is nicer if you are more often alone anyway (and only using it occasionally with a partner) just because it seems like there is a little more room and view. But – I haven't seen the Hapi in real life yet. I have the black cuben Khufu as well and agree it is impeccably made.Apr 9, 2015 at 7:31 pm #2190708
The vent on the Hapi is about twice the size as the Khufu, just a rough estimate based on what LG showed me.
I didn't know the silnylon one has the perimeter weakness, I think I'd just get the cuben one. Did you have any tears with yours? Do you still use it or did you sell it?
You might be right about the tie outs, I'm not positive.
Definitely right about headroom. For that I have my Hoopla 4 with a ton of headroom.
My criteria in choosing this mid are:
-double wall (main reason I didn't get a lightheart gear or zpacks triplex)
-under 2 lbs
-livable for 2
-great 4 season use
-smaller footprint than Hoopla 4 (64 sqft hexagon)
– .75 oz cuben
-inverted V pitch capable (Khafra is bigger but can't)
-relatively inexpensiveApr 9, 2015 at 7:51 pm #2190714Stephen MBPL Member
@stephen-mLocale: Way up North
My wife is going to be in Japan with work soon, maybe I should get one of these delivered to her hotel and bring one back.Apr 10, 2015 at 11:04 am #2190895
"My wife is going to be in Japan with work soon, maybe I should get one of these delivered to her hotel and bring one back."
They have quite a wait time, 5+ weeks when I checked a couple weeks ago. They also have free international air-shipping, which takes only about 3-4 days to get delivered.Apr 10, 2015 at 11:26 am #2190905Justin MillerBPL Member
Similar weight time. I placed an order for the Khufu on 3/25 and was quoted 5-6 weeks. They were very good to work worth, answering all my questions over several email correspondences. I went with Sil for the Khufu. I'm not entirely sure of their seam process for cuben. I spent a while going back and forth between LG and MLD and eventually came to the conclussion that MLD would be my choice if choosing cuben based upon the reviews I was able to compare. I think the main issue though is a limited number of reviews for their shelters in cuben–at least in languages that I am able to understand.
I did raise the concern of their #3 zipper that Dan Durston had mentioned in his comprehensive review. Here is the reasoning they provided:
"No, as we do not have it. As we have never had any trouble or weakness in #3 yet especially in YKK Aqua Guard zipper..And we think that #5 with very thin and light materials do not really matched."
I'm fairly careful with my equipment that requires it so respected their decision and didn't question further.
All in all, definitely looking forward to the next 3 weeks sliding by. Also, ever so slightly bummed I didn't have the Hapi to compare as an option at the time.Apr 11, 2015 at 4:09 am #2191058rmeurantBPL Member
I also have the black Cuben Khufu. I prefer the entrance on the long side for several reasons. I'm aging, and my mobility is getting less; and the side entrance is much easier to get in and out of than an end entrance tent (like several of my domes). It's also easier to put gear in and get it out from the side; also when lying down I prefer to see out the side thru the open door than behind my head. And I can occasionally have both door flaps open. But I'm a confirmed solo user, and I can see the advantage of end entry for dual users. Both the Hapi mid and the Hapi mesh inner look great!
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