Stove fuel usage

Yeah, that is my reasoning, too. But my overall consumption is a lot higher.
I boil about 30oz, twice per day, and cook about 15min. Over a 14 day trip (two weeks I use about 20floz (or 16oz by weight) of WG.

I've been doing these comparison calcs recently for my setups. For me, Alcohol always crosses over being lighter for the longer portion of the trip. (Esbit even more so…)

As you say, compared to food weight carried it's not really a big issue which system you use.

It's just interesting to see that although starting weight is higher for alcohol, how in most cases, it is the lighter option than gas when considered over the whole trip.

To give an accurate answer, you need to have good data on actual fuel consumption of both systems and to be fair, compare like with like?

It's not clear to me from your post what your 'boil' is referring to re quantity of water? I'm guessing 2 cups/500ml?

12 boils at 0.323oz from a 110g cart = 9 g gas/boil which should easily be sufficient to boil 500ml/2 cups with a cart top stove and good windshield. 8g is a commonly seen standard – which tallies with 13 x 2 cup boils from a cart? So your figures are sound for gas. (and confirm my own)

However your alcohol figures would be different from mine. (Have you done an accurate test of your system?)

My alcohol setup (cone and starlyte) will boil 2cups on 15ml(1/2oz) fuel usually, but I say 20ml (2/3oz)to give a safe margin. (though, if the stove setup is efficient as 15ml, that gives 60ml spare fuel for 12 – another 4 boils!)

Anyhow, for arguments sake, as an exercise. compare the nominal 12 boils with each system:

240ml (12 x20ml) alcohol weighs no more than 205g – 7.3oz for 12 boils?

So, unless I've made an error,

for me, alcohol is lighter than your gas setup right from the start?

> boil 12-13, 12oz dinners on 1 3.88oz (110g) canister
Doable, just.
But what about coffee?????

My wife and I budget 450 g of gas for the two of us for 14 days in 3-season weather, but that is with tea&coffee in the morning, soup, washing up, as well as the main course. That works out to about 15 g/day/person.

Cheers

In terms of fuel usage,there is a "sweet spot" whete cannister stives come out equal to Alxohol and that is when length fully uses the cannister.

Roger's post of about 225g per person for two weeks illustrates that perfectly.

If you really fine tune your cooking regimen for efficiency, you should do fine with a 220g cannister solo for 2 weeks.

Two caveats-

One is weight, since you already have the 4oz constant weight penalty of the steel cannister going against you,I would suggest going as light as possible with your burner/ cookpot. The SP Giga power is as heavy as BRS-3000 and some Ti cup combos combined..Revamping your.cannister system would be an easy way to get back to almost even on total system weight vs Alcohol.

The other issue is mechanical teliabilityforx two week trip. Sh#t happens and where legal just make sure you have some fire making skills/tools as a possible replacemwnt for /suppliment to the cannister rig.

Or, since you have a Caldera cone,if you like the smell,expense and dirty nature of Esbit, its going to be the lightest and most mechanically reliable.

Alcohol and canisters are roughly the same BTU's when considering heat output and 4oz cans.

8oz and 16oz cans can be more efficient as long as you don't need to consider the weight of a stove. A 3oz stove (like Rogers) can make the ~16oz cans (450gm) very efficient. But, I have never been able to get these in NY. Anyway here are the numbers, omitting wind screens, pots and lids which should be about similar.

Alky
14oz(by weight ethanol) + 1oz(bottle) + .5oz (stove) = ~15.5oz
or roughly
398gm(by weight ethanol) + 28gm bottle + 15gm (stove) = ~441gm

Gas
230(gas)+ 150gm(can) + 89gm stove = ~469gm
or roughly
8oz(gas) + 5oz (can) + 3oz (stove) = ~16oz

It doesn't really matter.

I would not hesitate to use my Snow Peak stove in the tent. Not so with the cone. I'd prefer to eat without the insect company. I know, bears. But I mean generally speaking.

You can do some testing to confirm your fuel usage.

When I use my gnat, I have a tight windscreen, and use it on LOW heat so that it takes 7.5 min or so to boil 1.5-2 cups. It does this on less than 0.2 oz fuel.

On the JMT last summer, I boiled 11 times, used about 1/2 of a small cannister.

My total stove setup wt was 3.05 oz + cannister = acceptable
Alcohol wouldnt have been lighter if allowed, I would have carried 8oz fuel+1oz fuel bottle for capacity of about 20 boils.

Mole, you may be right as I normally use 15ml of denatured alcohol per boil with the Caldera Cone/12-10 Stove combo. I normally use 1oz of fuel per day on my spreadsheets to add insurance, but your are right 20ml per day is probably plenty enough margin.

Also to note I will probably be using yellow HEET instead of regular denatured alcohol (like I normally use) because I can buy smaller quantities of it once I get in Alaska and I can't fly with fuel.

My dinners generally require between 5oz and 12oz of hot water. I don't do coffee, tea, or a hot breakfast so just 1 boil per day for dinner.

I'm doing a slow three week SOBO JMT this summer with my kid. I'm planning on taking my Gigapower stove and my Evernew 1.3 pot. I'm planning on near-boiling around four cups at dinner and maybe two cups in the morning.

My plan is to take a 220g canister and then I'll buy a second canister when resupplying at MTR. Any thoughts on how much fuel I'm taking?

"My plan is to take a 220g canister and then I'll buy a second canister when resupplying at MTR. Any thoughts on how much fuel I'm taking?"

This is a trick question, right?

Obviously you are taking two 220g canisters of butane.

–B.G.–

With an extremely efficient heat exchanger pot (heavy!) and good windscreen, fuel (propane/isobutane blend) consumption with the Giga is consistently about 9.6-9.8g/liter to reach boiling at sea level with ~55°F water to start. A non-HX pot w/good windscreen is roughly 15% less efficient, so 11-12g fuel per boil is in the ballpark.

With the water amounts you mention (is that realistic for two??), even if you burned 20g per day you'd have enough for 10 days plus a bit of margin.

However, at 10,000 feet boiling temp is around 194°F which improves the fuel-consumption picture if you're only rehydrating FBC or Mountain house meals or instant oatmeal, but will require significantly more fuel if you're actually cooking something because the lowered boiling point requires more cooking time.

Somebody (–B.G.–?) with a lot of high-elevation canister stove experience can advise exactly how much more fuel might be needed if cooking.

edit: add Water Start Temp

edit: n/m

"Somebody (–B.G.–?) with a lot of high-elevation canister stove experience can advise exactly how much more fuel might be needed if cooking."

Not me. I am primarily an Esbit user in the summer. In summer, I use a canister stove only when there are fish to be fried. In winter, I tend toward white gas.

There are an awful lot of variables that contribute to fuel usage numbers. A windscreen is a big factor. Size and shape of the cook pot can be a big factor. Starting temperature of the cold water might be important. This summer there will be much less stream water pouring down the mountains, so water that is there will be slightly warmer and less pure than on a normal year. You probably want to boil the water better than on a normal year. Sometimes JMT hikers are very good about camping low between the high passes, but those are the same areas where the horse packers camp.

–B.G.–

Based on experience from numerous trips using canister stoves I concur with 15 ml per person per day for cooking/simmering and some extra water for drinks/washing. Maybe 12 ml/p/day for one-pot meals and less extra water. And 20 ml/p/day for cold/windy conditions (down to freezing but not winter).

Thanks for all of the helpful responses.

And thanks to Bob, too. ;)