ultralight packing and dogs

Usually i take

Wet wipes – Wipe down at the end of the day
Tick lassoo – Usually check for ticks as i'm wiping her down each evening

That's about it really apart from food.

I turn the food bag down so she eats out of that, sometimes take a small folding bowl for water around camp, but i've trained her to take water from my water bladder nozzle so she usually gets a fair bit of water throughout the day.

She always licks my food sachets dry after each meal, she seems to enjoy it and it stops them stinking up my rubbish bag.

Tried all sorts for sleeping from a CCF mat and modified sleeping bag, to having her sleeping in my rucksack.

These days though if it's warm i tend to plonk her on to of some clothes at night, if it's cold i'll have her in the sleeping bag.

Don't put a harness on her, if i can't carry all her kit then i don't feel i'm being a reasonable dog owner by taking her along.
I've come across so many dog on the trail that just seem miserable as the owners loaded them up with wayyyyyy too much weight.

In my opinion there is absolutely no gain (that's not 100% selfish) to be had by getting our dogs to carry stuff.
At best it'll take the spring out of the dogs step, at worst it will cause permanent damage that is likely to cause the dog pain.

For me personally if i can get say 1 more pain free year out of my dog by carrying her stuff that's a great trade i'll take any and every day.

I've taken a GSD with hip dysplasia backpacking okay but I always carried her load. I do in general for my dogs – my back is light enough already, it's not as though I'm not physically capable of carrying their stuff and I carry the advantage (except in the winter) of not wearing a fur coat.

Really…nobody here is carrying heavy weight. How hard is it to carry stuff for your dogs? Over 5 days I'd probably give them SOME food to carry, but that's it, and it would be theirs that they ate through first.

Right now I have two dogs, a GSD mix who I can hike with off-leash but who has arthritis and laryngeal paralysis (he's almost 12) so he is an easy guy only. He'll come on a girl's weekend in August if it's not too hot with his laryngeal paralysis, but he should be fine, it's largely asymptomatic, he just makes a weird noise.

My husky mix is unreliable off-leash under distraction and likes to hunt (and is good at it, but never eats his catch) so I hike with him on leash.

For training, on walks sometimes I have him carry a pack, but it's not a huge amount. Maybe I should build it up more, as I'm trying to get his mileage in general up. He's a bit of a lazy dog, I adopted him thinking he'd be a great running buddy but he's slow and tires after 20k running. I want to work him up to 40k days for backpacking in tough terrain this year.

I have a 18 mo. old female golden retriever who comes from hunting lines and whom I've trained for pheasant hunting. A dog properly trained for hunting is more than well enough trained to be off leash. I took her on two backpacking trips last year: the first, for 4 days, I carried all her food; the second, for four days, she was finally over a year old so she carried her own food in a pack. I just pour her food on the ground (usually on a rock) and she's more than happy. The Sierras where I go have enough water that I don't need to carry water for her. I don't really train her for backpacking as she gets a ton of exercise on a daily basis: lots of fetching, my wife runs with her, and she gets out on lots of weekend hikes.

Prior to her, I had a Chesapeake, again bred and trained for hunting (waterfowl and pheasant). People remarked that he was the smallest male they'd seen (just shy of 70#), and basically impossible to exhaust. Same deal: trained to hunt, so behaving on trail was easy.

I'm just a huge retriever fan. That bred desire to come back to you makes them incredibly easy to train for the trail. And if they come from hunting lines they are tough enough that a hard day on the trail is nothing. Both of these dogs will double or triple my mileage (running ahead, coming back, etc.), and then spend a lot of time swimming on top of that. While Chessies can have temperament issues, I've never even heard of a bad Golden.

GSDs are my preferred breed; I've had two. I find most people keep them 'too big' – I like a pronounced tuck, and a visible rib or two is fine a well. If you get a structurally sound one they're great.

My male GSD (who is old now) has run 40k/day and done 60k day hikes and wanted to run at the end.

My husky mix has typical husky recall (hahaha…I have friends who have yards of sled dogs who warned me). I don't know if it's his other breeds that make him lazy – he has some Lab, and I have a perception that Labs are fat and lazy dogs – but for him, he has to be trained. He can do regular backpacking – 25k/day in tough 'mountainous' terrain – without training – but I'd like to get more out of him, and it's always been a chore to do so. He loves to run and hike, he just likes breaks. My GSDs go until you tell them to stop.

I've met some nice Goldens, but as a woman hiking solo – I did threat training with my female GSD and always felt safe with her. We were in Temagami in an isolated area where the trail crossed a logging road, a logger came to the lake to get water and while I'm sure he was fine, she was on alert and he knew it and left quickly.

Honestly, charlie LOVES his pack. he is a totally different dog when he has it on – he's attentive, he heels consistently, never leaves the trail, etc. It's interesting because we do a lot of trail running without his pack, and he doesn't carry anything when we do day hikes, but it's obvious he has a change of personality ("I'm working now") when he has it on, even if it's pretty empty. I don't think it's ever weighed more than 10 pounds (and he's an 80 pounder) but his excitement – even mid-trip when he's getting tired – at putting it on each morning is unmistakable.

Good point about GSD over Golden. Chessies are known for being protective. My Golden is worthless in that regard. Doesn't matter to me, but I'm not a woman hiking alone.

um, what is a GSD and a Chessie?

The Chuckster is a mutt. and he's awesome.

GSD=German Shepherd Dog (full breed name)

I think Chessies are Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, but I could be wrong.

"don't know if it's his other breeds that make him lazy – he has some Lab, and I have a perception that Labs are fat and lazy dogs – but for him, he has to be trained. "

From my limited experience, it's the usually the owner(s) that is fat and lazy and sadly, the dog is a byproduct of that. :(

I have a chocolate lab (parents were yellow and black) that has sometimes frustratingly high energy and endurance. She has the body of a sprinter due to her addiction to Chuck-it! play. My GSD mix has a similar level of energy, but much more awareness and prey drive, and appears to be more intelligent (haha). I think both breeds make fantastic dogs and together make a great combo.

Mara: excuse the drool.

It is nice to see a properly proportioned Lab! I agree they exist, but they are unfortunately rare, and agree that's mostly the owners. We have the WFDs (World's Fattest Dogs) living in our building and one is a Lab. Nicest dog. If I knew their unit, I'd call the SPCA.

But this is off the topic of backpacking :)

"Don't put a harness on her, if i can't carry all her kit then i don't feel i'm being a reasonable dog owner by taking her along.
I've come across so many dog on the trail that just seem miserable as the owners loaded them up with wayyyyyy too much weight.

In my opinion there is absolutely no gain (that's not 100% selfish) to be had by getting our dogs to carry stuff.
At best it'll take the spring out of the dogs step, at worst it will cause permanent damage that is likely to cause the dog pain.

For me personally if i can get say 1 more pain free year out of my dog by carrying her stuff that's a great trade i'll take any and every day."

I have never heard of a single vet that says you should not allow your dog to wear a backpack. Mine sure doesn't. And I really don't care if you think I'm being an unreasonable dog owner or a selfish person. I know my dogs, my vet knows my dogs, and we're looking out for their best interest. If you were to pass us on the trail, you would have no idea how much weight my dog is carrying so how would you know if a dog is overloaded? My dog's pack will definitely look full. Kibble is bulky, not heavy. And it's the bulk that is nice not to have in your pack. I'm already carrying a larger shelter for the 2 of us. My 80lb dog carries around 8 pounds so 10% of his weight for a week long trip. And the weight is mostly food. It gets significantly lighter everyday of a trip.

Pretty much everything you say is just speculation and your own opinions. I'll stick with what my vet says.

Right again Randy…

Yes, my dog enjoys quite a bit of time off leash when appropriate.
He carries his own food and occasionally water, if it's scarce (say, here in Texas).
I let him drink unfiltered creek/river/lake water.

I consider myself a very responsible dog owner – my dog literally LOVES going for backpacking trips, and I don't at all think he's miserable on them. I watch him very carefully and make sure he's comfortable; I stop if he needs it, we camp early if he needs it, and I don't take him on super long trips where mileage is a priority (say, my CT trip this summer) or if the temperature is going to be too hot for him.

Not at all sure where some of you get the idea that a conditioned dog carrying a properly fitting pack with appropriate weight in it is such a bad thing that's going to hurt him. Glad you said something Randy, because I kind of took a bit of offense at that statement.

"I have never heard of a single vet that says you should not allow your dog to wear a backpack. Mine sure doesn't. And I really don't care if you think I'm being an unreasonable dog owner or a selfish person. I know my dogs, my vet knows my dogs, and we're looking out for their best interest. If you were to pass us on the trail, you would have no idea how much weight my dog is carrying so how would you know if a dog is overloaded? My dog's pack will definitely look full. Kibble is bulky, not heavy. And it's the bulk that is nice not to have in your pack. I'm already carrying a larger shelter for the 2 of us. My 80lb dog carries around 8 pounds so 10% of his weight for a week long trip. And the weight is mostly food. It gets significantly lighter everyday of a trip.

Pretty much everything you say is just speculation and your own opinions. I'll stick with what my vet says."

This the same vet that you will be visiting when the dog starts suffering joint pains?
Call me sceptical but that just seems like they are guaranteeing future income to me.

Even with human health care there are very few specialists that understand how we use our body will impact us in later lives, so i'd be extremely sceptical of an opinion offered by a vet.
You also need to think that you are their customer, they are going to tailor their opinions and answers to try and keep the person paying the bills happy.

Again i can understand some may see that as sceptical, but working on and around farms for many years i've gotten to know a fair few vets over the years.

That's really an aside though.
What will my dog gain with being loaded up to 10% of her body weight?
I cannot think of 1 single gain, can you?

Now lets say that having her loaded up on long multi-day walks means there is a 1% chance it will cause joint pain, dysplasia later in life.

Seems like a no brainer to me, i have a small risk that can be off-set by absolutely no gain.
But then i have owned dogs that have suffered with arthritis and hip dysplasia, i know for an absolute fact i'd have carried 20kg extra if it would have given them a longer pain free life.

"What will my dog gain with being loaded up to 10% of her body weight?"

The ability to go backpacking in our case. I have bad knees and a bad back. I've lowered my pack weight so I can continue to go. I have a strong healthy dog who can easily handle carrying 8 pounds.

"This the same vet that you will be visiting when the dog starts suffering joint pains?
Call me sceptical but that just seems like they are guaranteeing future income to me.

Even with human health care there are very few specialists that understand how we use our body will impact us in later lives, so i'd be extremely sceptical of an opinion offered by a vet.
You also need to think that you are their customer, they are going to tailor their opinions and answers to try and keep the person paying the bills happy.

Again i can understand some may see that as sceptical, but working on and around farms for many years i've gotten to know a fair few vets over the years."

Wow, so in you're experience vets are willing to not only tell you what you want to hear but also will give you advice that will harm your animal so they can make more money??? That's sure not my experience. And you've know many vets and that's your takeaway? That's amazing. My experience has been just the opposite.

Pardon me if I'm more skeptical of a stranger with no veterinary training on the internet than I am with a vet I have known and trusted for 17 years.

Randy,

I completely agree. Dogs, in general, are much, much tougher and more resilient than all but perhaps the fittest humans. Most high energy dogs have an intense need to run every day, stemming from thousands of years of natural selection and hunting. It's why you can take your dog for a 10 mile run in the morning and by evening he'll be ready to go another 10 miles, no problem. The first time I went hiking with my lab, she wanted to pull ME up the mountain for about 4 miles.

A dog with a similar body weight/pack weight ratio to that of a LWBPer is going to have no trouble hiking and is going to have significantly more energy at the end of the hike than it's owner.

There are a couple caveats to this: (1) this would assume that the dog is healthy, not overweight, and doesn't have any kind of skeletal/joint issues and (2) the dog is a breed that is at least somewhat related to working breeds. A schnauzer, bulldog/pug (breathing), toy breeds, etc. are not going to do well, but that should be quite clear, hopefully.

Jennifer,

Not sure if there is a misunderstanding here.
I have absolutely zero problems with anyone taking their dog backpacking, i take mine and she loves it.

My point is why load the dog up.
Dogs have not been bred to carry loads like say horses or donkeys, certain breeds are bred to pull loads but this is a very different load that's put on their bodies.

Will loading a dg up with say 10% of it's body weight cause all dogs problems later in life = nope
Will it cause some dogs problems = absolutely
Can you tell which camp your dog falls in = nope

So again why risk it, what does the dog gain by carrying weight = absolutely nothing, it's stress put upon the dog 100% for human gain.

Should say that it's not only joint pains later in life that are a concern, pad wear, mechanical injury, chaffing are all concerns when a dog is loaded up.

Personally i take 100% responsibility for my dogs well being while out hiking, i carry all her food, water and everything i think she needs to be as comfortable as possible, as a responsible owner i feel that's the least i can do for having her along for the journey.

BTW
Dogs can catch pretty much every virus and bacterial infection from drinking untreated water that us humans do, if you are filtering or treating water for your own consumption then i'd recommend doing the same for your dog.

Drew,

Unfortunately any good that has come about from natural selection has been obliterated by human interference.
We are now in a position where certain dogs breeds cannot even give birth without human intervention.

Certain breeds like terriers seem to have come out of this human interference pretty much in tact, other breeds have been in-bred and trait bred into an abomination.

Working breeds tend to be the most healthy, but finding one of that breed from a good stock is difficult.

Goes against most dog owning logic but mongrels tend to be the healthiest and have the longest life, proof positive the kennel club needs to be investigated for inspiring animal cruelty

Better leave your dog at home. Those extra miles could be what cause issues later on. You just don't know, do you? Better be safe and leave your dog on the couch.

the reason why I don't bother treating Charlie's water is that he swims CONSTANTLY. every single puddle of water we encounter – he's in. And flopping all over. And licking himself. It would be simply IMPOSSIBLE to keep him from ingesting untreated water…so I let him. That was a fight I gave up LONG ago.

And no, there's no misunderstanding. But I'm with Randy about vets – my cousin is one and he just chuckles when I ask him about Charlie's ability to keep hiking as he ages with his hip dysplasia. His exact comment? "yeah, he's way more suited to hiking with a pack than you are." And no, he's not trying to keep me happy, nor is he earning a single penny from me. I've also had LONG conversations with his orthopedic colleague who confirmed repeatedly that Charlie is fine carrying a pack with weight in it.

The dog LIKES to work. He likes having a job to do – and when that pack goes on he is a completely different dog (in a good, focused way). I would never have him carry 30 pounds or anything, but goodness gracious he's way stronger than I am, easily runs 4 times more than I hike (forward, back, forward, back…run up, run back. Look! a squirrel!) and could keep going at the end of the day.

Jennifer,

He is absolutely gorgeous.

You know what i hadn't thought about swimming, i do not allow my dog to swim in water that hikers are likely to be getting water from, so swimming is off the books for her.
I do see your point though.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the weights, as i say i can't see any gain to be had for loading up a dog unless it's for selfish reasons.
But like i say i have had dogs that have suffered joint problems, so would do anything i possibly could to try and prevent that in my current dogs future old age.

Randy,
I am putting my point across in as much an unemotional way i can, i have given my reasoning and responses, which i can understand some would call sceptical but still that has been my experience with some vets.

I can understand why you would be emotional, i can also understand why you feel the need to load up your dog.
I don't see any gain to made by making factitious comments though.

I let my dogs drink untreated water, from puddles if they look clean, streams, lakes etc. I also take my dogs in swimming where I go, which is going to be the same spot we are at some point getting our drinking water from.

But then I have, on every single canoe trip and backpacking trip I've ever done, since childhood, made a point of drinking at least SOME untreated water.

Our vet knows I do this. They just said 'not puddles/standing water'. I also obviously discourage swamp water. Though Neb likes swimming in it (BLEGH).

"Drew,

Unfortunately any good that has come about from natural selection has been obliterated by human interference.
We are now in a position where certain dogs breeds cannot even give birth without human intervention.

Certain breeds like terriers seem to have come out of this human interference pretty much in tact, other breeds have been in-bred and trait bred into an abomination.

Working breeds tend to be the most healthy, but finding one of that breed from a good stock is difficult.

Goes against most dog owning logic but mongrels tend to be the healthiest and have the longest life, proof positive the kennel club needs to be investigated for inspiring animal cruelty"

John,

Those are all good points. Huge differences are becoming ever apparent between 'Best of Show' dogs and true working dogs.

I know that's a bit off topic, but it does weigh in on what dogs can or should be taken hiking.

"I let my dogs drink untreated water, from puddles if they look clean, streams, lakes etc. I also take my dogs in swimming where I go, which is going to be the same spot we are at some point getting our drinking water from."

I'm really struggling here because i'm really not trying to be contentious or argumentative, but i don't think it's right that people allow their dogs to swim IF it's a smaller water source like say a mountain lake.

I don't think it's right that people swim and bathe in said lakes though so it's nothing specifically against dogs.

Personally i do not allow my dog to swim in mountain lakes as i do not think it's fair on anyone else that comes after.
I don't allow my dog to swim in fast flowing river for obvious reasons.
My dog does swim in the sea though, i do allow that.

Again in vast lakes it's really not going to make any difference, but i do think it's irresponsible to allow dogs to swim in smaller mountain lakes that have a fair amount of foot fall.
Not only is it unhygienic it's not exactly going ingratiate us dog owners with fellow hikers that come upon the scene wanting to get water from that source.

I understand much wildlife will do exactly the same thing, we are not in control of that though are we, that's not our active choice in allowing it.

Again i cringe posting this as i'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but as a dog owner if i came to a mountain lake and found a owner allowing their dog to swim in it knowing it's the only water source in miles, i'd be mega pee'd off.

Mark,

We're all entitled to our opinions, so I can see your points for not allowing your dog in mountain streams/lakes.

I don't know that there are any laws or restrictions on that in CA in areas where dogs are allowed. My opinion is that it is more a matter of perception than hygiene. If there was a smallish body of water, perhaps swimming pool volume, I'd rather drink out of it after a dog swam in it than another hiker. Factually speaking, there are less transmittable diseases. Opinion wise, there is less 'yuck' factor for me with getting dog hair in my water than some dirtbag hiker's pubic hair :chills:

I know you also stated that you didn't feel people should bathe in them either, but again, it's just personal opinion there. You have to assume that their is all manner of animal feces, plant material, and other debris in natural water so at that point it doesn't matter. I would say that most hikers use filters or 'purification' tablets and those who don't probably pick larger, more free flowing water source.

First of all, I don't "load up" my dog. That's just the way you phrase it to make it sound bad so you can continue on your theme of being judgmental. I really don't agree with anything you say. I'll continue to follow the advice of actual experts.

And that mountain lake you don't want dogs or humans swimming in. Fish defecate in it. :)