Esbit burner testing

[Roger Caffin]

Hi all

When testing for fuel consumption and boil times, you need to use a genuine thermometer and to quote volume and start temperature as well as boil time. As to why:

When Jetboil first released their stove and pot at an OR they claimed some incredible times. It turns out they were starting with quite warm water and only going to where the bubbles started to form. They thought that was near boiling: it was actually around 80 C.

When Ryan & BPL publically tested the Jetboil, possibly at the same OR, they measured about double the time to boil and figured out the problems. This was published here at BPL. Jetboil subsequently withdrew their wild claims. A bit incompetent. Some may remember this incident (with mirth).

Cheers

[rmeurant]

It’s that denatonium, I tell you – gotta have it – instant boil, rocket fuel…

(Eric falls to the dark side).

[DAN-Y]

FYI gentlemen (& you too Robert ;o) Over on the Trailspace site there is a review of the Kojin alcohol burner.Yes, I said alcohol and, I know, this is an ESBIT thread

 

A site that gives/gave monetary rewards for reviews are not worth the powder to blow them to hell. The reviews are are not worth the powder to blow them to hell.

Fake news… Fake Reviews!!!

Eric, that site indicates you were one of their paid reviewers….whodda thunkit? I suspect you did reviews for TD by the way you advertise for them.

Affiliated Links….what would the reviewers do without them

Eric, I wish you well, purchase the reviewed product and switch to alcohol fuel, the quiet fuel, as is esbit.

What I learned using the U-Can approach to heating water, I will apply to an aluminum cup and a titanium windscreen. 8 grams of esbit to boil 2 cups is efficiency.

Take heed to what Roger posted. Good insight to the way manufactures advertise their products.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Gents,

Have ordered the “miracle” Kojin alky stove. If it proves as good as the review I’ll use it once I test it beside ESBIT, weight-for-weight, same starting temp and full boil temp and time.

I have a digital thermometer that is fairly accurate so I’d guess others could repeat my test to see if they get the same results. Repeatable peer results are the true tests in any scientific endeavor.

1. I don’t think Trail Designs or Trailwise paid the reviewer for his tests.
2. I’m not paid by anyone for good reviews. I’m a fanboy of some products B/c they give me good results. But often these products benefit by consumer mods. For example the BGET ESBIT tray and my own winter mods to my Tarptents.
3. Let’s try to keep the humor in this interminable and fascinating (to me) thread. I joked about ESBIT “heresy” and becoming one of “The Alcohol Persuasion” to inject some humor and maybe poke fun at our fervent ESBIT enthusiasm.

PEACE, ESBIT Brothers

 

[rmeurant]

Eric the Egregious Errant Expeditioner doggedly determined to detonate denatonium constantly craving complete combustion – bravely bracing for bitter bravado, accepting accumulating accentuated accolades…

[Denatured alcohol, also called methylated spirit (methylated spirits in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the United Kingdom) or denatured rectified spirit, is ethanol that has additives to make it poisonous, bad-tasting, foul-smelling, or nauseating to discourage recreational consumption. It is sometimes dyed. Pyridine, methanol, or both can be added to make denatured alcohol poisonous, and denatonium can be added to make it bitter].
[Denatonium, usually available as denatonium benzoate (under trade names such as BITTERANT-b, BITTER+PLUS, Bitrex or Aversion) and as denatonium saccharide (BITTERANT-s), is the most bitter chemical compound known, with bitterness thresholds of 0.05 ppm for the benzoate and 0.01 ppm for the saccharide].

[Matthew / BPL]

just stopping by to say this is a weird thread.

[rmeurant]

Whudda thought it? But always PGA. Eric, have you applied a gauze for hot spots? Evernew makes square ones; also round as part of a toasting rig.

[Roger Caffin]

Don’t worry Matthew, I am monitoring it carefully. As long as no one tries selling detanonium trinitrate it is OK. If anyone does I will either move the thread to Gear Deals (and want samples), or just alert the ATF.

Cheers

[rmeurant]

Dan, I plan to reconfigure my Asahi 2L shield to accommodate the TriveTi when I get home from my Kyushu wanderings. Somehow I want to invert the top part of the dome to hold the (4 gm) Esbit tab(s); that is the main problem sans workshop and decent tools, and I’m wary of damaging the shield. Use a screwdriver to punch depressions for the TriveTi feet… I picked up a soft neoprene zip case for the Evernew 570 cup that nicely fits my shield and stacked 400 cup. Makes for a compact coffee set.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

matthew k,

Yer keerect, this here is a durn weird thread – and we-uns are d@mn proud of it!

Robert,

It is aundantly apparent that my aversion to adherents of alcoholic fuels has furthered a fascination of fanatic proportions for my pronounced proclivity to immolate immodestly immense amounts of that quintessentially queer fuel known as ESBIT.

Howsomever… having been hideously hounded and fanatically flogged by egregiously ESBITing solid fuel stove sycophants I will nevertheless never-mind these nattering nabobs of negativity and proceed to torturously test and thermometerize my quirky Kojin in my comically, conically-shaped Caldera Cone.(WHEW!)

That said we are mostly on this site to lighten our load, or at least make hiking and camping more comfortable and enjoyable. So, c’mon, let me test the Kojin with ESBIT in conditions as controlled as possible to see what happens.

(And of course, Robert, meanwhile I’ll be searching for that “DENATONIUM UNOBTAINUM” with which to create a semi-pressurized stove that can melt titanium mugs.)  Mmwwaaahahahahahahaha!!

Maythegodsoffirefavorourfortunesofflammability fooorreeevvveeerr! Amen! (Sung to a Gregorian chant)

See matthew, we aren’t ALL nuts.

[rmeurant]

Cor! Thor!
[Mistaken methinks, likely Loki].

[Matthew / BPL]

lol @roger

edit: lol @therestofyou as well

[DAN-Y]

Eric,

If you are interested in fast boil times for esbit, do this.  Split the tablet in half and stand the pieces on end (apart from each other).  You will be able to boil 2 cups of water in under 5 minutes.  My 2 cents.

 

Yon and others, what is the easiest way to split tablet in half? I’ll do some testing with the half tablets, might be better than 2 four grammers. Be nice to get 2 cups to boil with 1/2 tablet.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

I never tried splitting an ESBIT or Coughlans tablet but sawing with a multi-tool saw would leave too many crumbs.

Likely putting a knife point vertically on a divide groove and hitting the hilt of the knife should split it, as opposed to trying to cut it. I’ll give it a try when I test Dan’s BEGT with the chimney and also when I test ESBIT v.s. the Kojin alky stove.

 

 

[rmeurant]

I’d like to see an objective comparison between the environmental costs of using Esbit vs. denatured alcohol vs. biomass. I’m not suggesting that Esbit would have the least costs.

[Roger Caffin]

Don’t try cutting or sawing. Both of those methods make a large mess.
Put a small triangular file on a hard surface, balance the ESBIT tablet on it, and thump downwards on the two ends. That will crack the tablet in half.
You could also use three mid-sized nails to do this. Two on a hard surface at the edges of the tablet, then the tablet, then the third nail across the middle (all parallel), then another hard surface. Thump.
Do I need to do a diagram?

Cheers

[rmeurant]

Further, I think tests of fuel systems should be geared towards use. So there is a multitude of criteria to be considered, of which speed in boiling, or fuel efficiency (which is something else) is not the sole focus. Ease of use, convenience, sheer usability, fuel availability when travelling and/or in remote areas are some of the factors that should be considered. The ability to moderate combustion to avoid burning food might be another. Ability to cook reasonably safely in a (well ventilated) tent might also be a consideration.
I might add that in a public setting, I have little hesitation in using Esbit (e.g. a city park); but biofuel might draw attention as a lit fire and with smoke, while an alcohol burner might be too concentrated a heat source to be as safe.

[DAN-Y]

Put a small triangular file on a hard surface, balance the ESBIT tablet on it, and thump downwards on the two ends. That will crack the tablet in half.

Triangular file sounds like the best way to split them. I’ve never tried before, never had the need until now. This new design I’ve stumbled upon has opened up new doors. I’m optimistic that half a cube will boil 2 cups with a starting temp of 70 degrees.

A comparison of esbit and alcohol burners would best be put in a thread of it’s own.
——————-
Section deleted as it was becoming personal.
Roger Caffin
Moderator, BPL
——————–

 

Further, I think tests of fuel systems should be geared towards use. So there is a multitude of criteria to be considered, of which speed in boiling, or fuel efficiency (which is something else) is not the sole focus. Ease of use, convenience, sheer usability, fuel availability when travelling and/or in remote areas are some of the factors that should be considered. The ability to moderate combustion to avoid burning food might be another. Ability to cook reasonably safely in a (well ventilated) tent might also be a consideration.

Robert, all very good points to consider. Thank you for that!

“Ease of use, convenience”……. I LIKE EASY

 

 

[rmeurant]

Thanks Dan. My Asahi 2L windscreen and tripod support is working beautifully in windy (urban) conditions – bridge over canal etc. Not a typhoon, but moderate wind that would otherwise cause the flame to be put out. Also, I’ve more or lest mastered the new Evernew two-part Ti windscreen in plastic case. I’ll describe its use before long. But briefly, the 570 pot doesn’t fit in the plastic case, or vice versa. For use with Esbit use a TriveTi and only one ring of the windscreen, in either large setting for the 570, or small for the 400. For two rings, the TriveTi has to sit on the Evernew alcohol stove (else the handles foul on the upper ring). It makes a nice set with just the 400, plus the case would be good for a bowl, other than the double ring would collect food. If all that is already widely known, my apologies – I have little sense these days of the US market. The Ti windscreen would likely cut the user one day if he or she loses concentration, and if a bit hypothermic in bad conditions, might be a bit of a hassle; and it springiness could indeed cause problems (e.g. slicing the eye). But like most Evernew gear, well designed.

[Stormin]

A comparison of esbit and alcohol burners would best be put in a thread of it’s own.
————-
The rest was deleted as it was personally abusive (to someone else).
Roger Caffin
Moderator, BPL

[rmeurant]

The thiendish thot plus plickens.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Stormin, I AM NOT ADVERTISING for Trail Designs! Where do you guys get this? Just B/C I made a reference to a review on an alky stove does not make me a shill for a company.

Geeez oh Man! as Radar O’Riley used to say.

[rmeurant]

As from the 8-mile high nest-in-the-sky the cuckoo cries weirdness lies in the eye of the beholder…

[DAN-Y]

BLASPHEMY!

FYI gentlemen (& you too Robert ;o) Over on the Trailspace site there is a review of the Kojin alcohol burner.Yes, I said alcohol and, I know, this is an ESBIT thread but before you throw stones please listen.

SOME TERMS:

1.burner- a device that burns fuel or holds and burns fuel

2.stove- a device consisting of a burner, pot support and often a windscreen – i.e a complete system

Evidently Trail Designs, the maker of our beloved Caldera Cones, is now selling theKojin alky burner. The reviewer posted some comparative boil times using several alky burners including the TD 12-10, Starlyte and a few others plus, natch, the Kojin burner. The Kojin tops out above the sainted Starlyte as fastest to boil, fastest by a lot. And its about 1/2 the volume of the 12-10 burner. Store it inside a rolled up cone.

I’m all about weight and if the Kojin can produce the same burn time for less weight than ESBIT (especially over several days of breakfasts and dinners)  then I may become a convert to the “Denatured Alcohol Persuasion”. Blasphemy, I know. But this tiny Kojin burner seems to be both hot and efficient – kinda like my Filipina wife. BTW, The test was done with a Sidewinder ti Caldera Cone, my favorite.

So I’m ordering the Kojin stove to test the sucker myself.

Now begin the stone (or stove) throwing.

 

Sounds like you’ll be switching to alchy. I wish you the best!

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/starlyte-gold-burner.php

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Robert, I’ll keep you posted on the advance of my new system by PM

[rmeurant]

Shrine to the warmly remembered former Esbit devotee –

[Author]

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