Esbit burner testing

[DAN-Y]

Robert, yes we’re shaping the flame, controlling the burn rate at the same time. Instead of controlling the burn rate by the amount of holes in the can we use the U shape tray. A small breeze will have an effect on the fancey feast stove if the U shape burner is not used. The height of the tray guides the flame to within 1/4″ of the pot bottom. The sides of the tray act as a wind/breeze blocker.

Yesterday I made a concentrator out of titanium. Did 6 burn tests just to test the stability of the titanium to hold it’s shape. It performed well, no distortion. Did not boil water, just let the cubes burn in the open air while I watched the flames of my campfire.

edit to add…the U shape can be widened at the top to shape the flame more to an oval pattern as it meets the bottom of the pot.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

That’s interesting about how you got the oval flame. A bit wider flame may help. Would widening the top of a Gram Cracker have that effect?

With ESBIT it seems that we are incrementally approaching max efficiency on several fronts.

Now for that “de-tuned” solid rocket fuel replacement for ESBIT – you know, “ESBIT with attitude”. Maybe it would be so hot it would require a perforated ti flame spreader. Or just use compressed cubes of “magnesium wool”.  Oh, well, a boy can dream…

 

[DAN-Y]

The side panels of the Gram Cracker would have to be 2X’s taller to widen out the flame.

The flame of the concentrator brings the flame up and hits the bottom of the pot and then spreads out. The concentrator walls come to within 1/4″ of the pot bottom.

Maybee some Sodium dropped directly into the pot of water would be fast and efficient 

[DAN-Y]

Did some testing over the holiday. Made  2 titanium esbit concentrators. One has 6 air intake holes at the base, 3 on each side to speed up burn/boil time. The one with holes had a flame out 17 min. compared to no holes which had a flame out at 22 min.

The concentrators have bread pan corners to contain liquefied esbit and insure a complete consumption of tablet.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Dan,

Was there a flame size difference between the two burners?

 

 

[Bob Moulder]

Esbit 5g tabs first impressions

They’re good. 

[DAN-Y]

Eric, not much of a difference in height but there was a noticeable difference in volume about 5-8 minutes into the burn.

[Bob Moulder]

Do they both boil 3 cups with a 14g tab?

[DAN-Y]

No boil tests yet, just perfecting the folding and welding process. Making adjustments when the thoughts come about as in the case of adding the small holes to speed up the burn rate. Watching for warpage of the Ti. No warpage so far.

[DAN-Y]

Today 4 boil tests completed. Starting temps were 69-71 degrees avg. 3 cups in a toaks 900 ti pot with handles. It’s the best size pot for 3 cups, has good amount of head room for ease of pouring water into freezer bags. The handles on a pot are a must when heating 3 cups. Using a pot gripper is old school and a PITA. Extra parts are a nuisance ;-)

Time to boil averaged 13.5 – 14.5 min, with approx 2 min. more of boil till flame out.

I used the 3.250 dia titanium pot support and the titanium esbit concentrator. (weight 10 grams total for 2 pcs)

With this set up I can say with confidence,  one 14 gram esbit will boil 3 cups of water under calm conditions and summer time air temps. Todays humidity was around 75%(rain is imminent)

This is the set-up used today (no windscreen)

[rmeurant]

Jumping Jehoshaphat! Tiared Titania! Escalatory Esbit!

Here, rain has transitioned from imminent to omnipresent. Poor Kyushu next door, serious flooding, loss of life. Mt Aso disruptions a while back (earthquakes) were bad enough, I saw the great landslide that took out a critical bridge above a gorge, severely disrupted access to the area.

I think there is a coffee filter apparatus of some kind that transitions from a circular form to a slit. That is the transition of flame I imagined, but not just surface but channel, so inner and outer parts with nominal constant distance between. Slit becoming the tab rectangle, circular flame at base of pot, but also probably easing width near the top to spread the flame radially inwards and outwards. So concentric outer and inner flame formers. Then probably turbofied, to get some sort of a vortex…

Also Dan, isn’t there some kind of end effect on the burning of Esbit tabs, as there seems to be more intense flame at the ends than the middle, probably because of relatively greater surface area of tabs to air? And is there some substance that could be formed by the flame, to capture the flame shape (over time), then approximate the former to the flame shape? Or maybe 3D image capture from heat camera?

But your explorations look much closer to realizing effective solution…

 

[rmeurant]

Yes if you had some substance that acted as a former that responded to greater heat intensity, so in some way it self-optimized its shape to provide greatest sustained heat…

[rmeurant]

And possibly the surface characteristics of the final product could be self-modifying to optimize the heat. i.e. above a certain heat, the substance would modify its surface properties to enable greater heat to be produced. So the stove former would need to be a sensing platform to heat.

[rmeurant]

(I’m currently reading a paper on the production and demonstration of PDMS/CNT nanocomposite showing a peculiar surface texture as a flexible sensor platform, and extending that thinking to heat). At which point I will thankfully shut up.

[DAN-Y]

Nice……coffee filter gizmo made of stainless steel would be a nice begining piece to modify into a concentrator.

http://www.dhgate.com/product/stainless-steel-metal-cone-espresso-coffee/371083972.html

Poor Kyushu  is right. I watched a Drone coverage of the devastation. Now that’s Jumping Jehoshaphat!

Tomorrow I’ll do a photo or two of the flame under the pyrex bowl to see what the shape is.

 

[DAN-Y]

Has anyone used the UST Fuel Cubes and maybe did a side by side comparison to Esbit?

A sample review:

February 9, 2018
So I tested these compared to Esbit tablets and I found i like the UST tablets more. I tested the esbit to see how long it would take it to boil 8oz of water. That took between 4:30 to 5 minutes. I tried UST tablets and it took just over 3 minutes. Plus the UST tablets don’t stink like fish. I half wonder if esbit tablets have ever brought a bear in to someones camp cause they smell EXACTLY like strong fish. Really strong smell. The UST tablets have hardly any smell and they really don’t smell like much of anything. Both tablet brands burned out at about 12 minutes. Niether gave off any smell during burning. I like both the tiny esbit stove and the larger UST stove, but i will definately be using the UST tablets for both. Also i used aluminum foil folded several times over to make a strip for a widescreen. Oh and the UST tablets burn down to an ashy cube which you can just shake out or swipe out. Esbit tablets burned down to a tiny mounded residue that caked onto the stove bottom and required a knife to break off from the stove. UST cleans up much easier.

 

[Mole J]

Dan.

Those tablets will weigh more than Esbit tabs

The old UK army hexamine tabs they are copies of( shapewise), weigh 28g per piece. The original army fuel, in my tests performs exactly as Esbit (and smells like it). I use it regularly as it comes in at 1/4 the price of Esbit. ( From surplus stores).

There are commercial copies around on sale like those you linked to. Similar sized area but thinner tabs. Weigh about 20g.

In our tests, weight for weight, the fuel doesn’t perform as well as Esbit or UK army hexamine.

This DST brand is maybe better…

 

[DAN-Y]

Thank you @mole. I purchased a DST tri wing stove to see how it compares to an ESBIT brand. The ESBIT one looks to have a rectangular shelf compared to a square on the DST.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

We NEED “modified” solid rocket fuel. ;o) But then we’s all need titanium pots & skillets to handle the heat.

Jus’ saying’…

[DAN-Y]

I agree, more powerful esbit is needed. Eric, make it happen. What about the flares used in mountain rescue, any merit in using the product in them as fuel?

[DAN-Y]

My titanium adaptation/hack of the BGET into a 1 piece stove.

Recent tests in frigid northern Illinois temperatures using cold well water in a Toaks Light 700 pot. 31 degree air temps in my garage, boiled 3 cups in 16 min. Weighs 1/2 ounce, folds flat. Esbit has power 

[Douglas Layne]

Dan Y are you planning on making them for sale.

I use esbit as my cooking source. That is a very nice looking stove.

[DAN-Y]

Dan Y are you planning on making them for sale.

I use esbit as my cooking source. That is a very nice looking stove.

 

If I can find a China source that sells them wholesale I might take on that project. I will be switching over to Ti to make the BGET’s

[rmeurant]

Dan, If I can wake up later in the day, and go thru my archives, I’ll message you a titanium manufacturer there that struck me as a good choice for such projects.

[rmeurant]

Messaged. By the way, I use the Ti tripod you use frequently, and although it has good characteristics, it also strikes me as a design that could be improved. The sharpish points on the legs, for starters; and it is kinda user-unfriendly when packed (at small scale). Possibly it could be adapted to hanging, with holes in the legs. Later I’ll post my stove combination using it with a cut-down beer can, which works amazingly. Just a bit busy and groggy at present.

[Author]

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