ZPacks Arc Haul

Joe,

One thing worth considering since you’re in between sizes is the load lifters.  With the medium, the load lifters will connect to the shoulder straps at a higher angle than with the small size, given the same torso adjustment.  Since the medium frame will extend further up than the small when both are adjusted to 18.5″, this may or may not be the ideal position.  It seems like most people like the load lifters at about a 45-60 degree angle.  If it were me, and I wanted to make best use of the load lifters, I’d get the medium.  In an UL pack with relatively light loads it might not matter all that much – but I think it’s at least worth considering if it’ll help you make up your mind.

Examples of different load lifter angles.  Note: I am not sure what the torso heights are in these pictures; it’s more to just illustrate the point.

Hi Folks, regardless of pack weight how would Arc Haul users out there compare the carry comfort vs a more traditional pack like a Osprey Atmos 50 or Gregory Zulu 55 or… In the 30-40lb range?

Thanks!

“Since the medium frame will extend further up than the small when both are adjusted to 18.5″, this may or may not be the ideal position.”

I’m not sure if that is true. I think I remember Joe saying the Short and Medium packs are the same size and the difference is how high up they sew on the adjusting webbing…. the Medium being sewn on higher than the Short. On the Medium he would adjust toward the lower end of the range to achieve a 18.5 torso… on the Short he would adjust toward the higher end of the range to again achieve an 18.5 torso. If, as I recall, the bags are the same size then the point at which the load lifters connect to the shoulder straps would be at the same height and the angle to where they connect to the top of the pack would be the same… I think. (for both packs the waist belt connection is at the bottom so no difference there) Would have to email Joe and/or go through my old emails to confirm whether the Short and Medium packs are the same size.

After discussing all the positives and negatives with Joe (owner of Z-Packs) last summer he recommended I go with the Short… but said either would work and would likely not notice much if any difference in the suspension/fit.

There is one potential advantage of going with the Medium though… and that might be resale. I think the Medium would likely fit more prospective buyers than the Short size.

billy

“I’m not sure if that is true. I think I remember Joe saying the Short and Medium packs are the same size and the difference is how high up they sew on the adjusting webbing…. the Medium being sewn on higher than the Short.”

Billy, I am no expert, but I don’t think that is true.  It would make sense on the older style Arc Blast, but not the newer ones.  The adjustment webbing is attached directly to the top crossbar of the frame, so the only difference would be the actual frame length – otherwise the packs would have exactly the same adjustment range.  On the older style, the shoulder straps were sewn directly onto the packbag and thus could be moved up or down.  But on these, the max height is dictated by the top crossbar, and the minimum height is dictated by the lowest point on the “conveyor belt” adjustment, as zPacks calls it.

Again, no expert here, and I’m not intending to start a debate.  I do have a brand new Arc Blast (Med) though so it is based observation.

Okay so here is my email communication from Joe last June relative to which size to buy for me being 5’6″ torso of 18.5 :

“Short is 16-20″, which would put 19″ at the middle-top. Medium is 18-22″ which would put 19” at the middle-bottom.

The actual frame height is the same in either case. You could fit either. Medium works for the majority of average height people, especially men, so that is why I suggested that.  Take your pick, I don’t think it will matter much either way.”

And then upon further questioning:

“Honestly I don’t know if it will make much difference either way. How tall are you? Did you already tell me? If you are 5′ 8″ or up, I’d go Medium. If you are shorter than that, go Short.”

Of course, things might have changed in the past year so wouldn’t hurt to run it by Joe again?

billy

I think what Joe is saying is that the adjusted frame height is the same in either case, since both can adjust to the 18-20″ range.  That would make sense given what Joe has on his website regarding the actual carbon frame (and not the adjusted ‘frame’/torso):

“The frame height changes depending on which torso range you choose.”

Maybe someone with a small torso blast/haul can post a pic?  I can then post one of my med.

I don’t see what good pics would do.

What me need for comparison are measurements!

Form my ‘Short’ size, I measure 23 inches from the bottom of the bottom stay holder to the top of the top stay holder… measured along the curve, stays not flexed. Basically the length of the stays plus the thickness of the top and bottom retainers.

billy

Drew… looking at your pic, it looks to me like they just moved the shoulder strap mechanism down 2″ for the ‘short’ size. My guess is the Medium and Short use the same size bag and stays… they’re the same size pack. Then they may add a couple of inches to the bag and stay for the size larger than Medium. Does your stay measure about 23 inches?

billy

Yes, I just measured mine and the vertical stay looks to be right at 23″.  What is the distance between the bottom of the vertical stay and the top of the horizontal cross bar on yours?

From your picture I can tell you the cross bar is about two inches lower on my ‘short’… at the bottom of the triangular water port cover.

billy

So it seems the ‘short’ and the ‘medium’ Arc Haul are the same frame size and they just mount the should strap adjusting strap lower for the ‘short’… which also seems to mean that for a person with an 18.5 inch torso the shoulder straps will end up at about the same height relative to the load lifters… and the same angle.

I bet they make the larger size with a longer/larger frame and longer bag.

billy

Oh okay, that makes sense.  I guess we were both right on different points – the length of the total frame is the same on both small and medium torso sizes, but the ‘effective’ length is about 2″ longer on the medium.  No wonder it didn’t make sense to either of us at first!

The point about the load lifters’ angle would still apply since they mount 2″ lower on the small torso pack, but it probably won’t make a huge difference anyhow, especially with 15-30# loads.

“The point about the load lifters’ angle would still apply since they mount 2″ lower on the small torso pack…”

I don’t think so. The load lifters don’t mount 2″ lower… rather, they will attach to the shoulder straps at the same height (after adjusting the height of the shoulder strap attachment up on the ‘short’ and down on the ‘medium’) and at the top of the stay at the same height (23″)… so the angle of the load lifer should be about the same.

billy

However… there is something else that could change the angle of the load lifters.

If the shoulder straps are the same size/length for the medium and short size packs AND the load lifers attach at the same point, then I think the angle of the load lifters would be different because more of the should strap would be behind your shoulder on the Medium (moving the load lifter attachment point more toward the pack) due to adjusting the shoulder strap attachment point down compared to the Short size pack shoulder strap attachment point being adjusted up (moving the load lifter attachment point more forward and away from the pack).

All that said, I haven’t noticed a problem or any discomfort due to the load lifers on the Short size Arch Haul and I’m about the same size as the OP. Bear in mind there are many differences in body types and perceptions of comfort. The only way to get the perfect pack is to order one custom made. The only way to tell if the Short or Medium Arc Haul fits better is to order them both and try them and return the one that you don’t like as much. Some people may find a steeper angled load lifter to be more comfortable, others will prefer a less steep angle. Mostly, we just adapt and get used to things.

Billy

Thank you both Billy and Drew. This has given me a lot to think about.

I loaded up my Medium size ULA Circuit that I typically wear with the belt about even with the top of my hip bones, at this position the straps are almost straight back to the pack. I then measured the distance from the bottom of the belt to the strap attachment point at 19 inches. Measuring from the top of the frame on the ULA to the bottom of the belt/bag is 23 inches.

So based on 19 inches and what you both found the only thing difference is how much adjustment range do I want. The medium would only allow me 1 inch of downward adjustment if I needed it while the small would only allow 1 inch of upward adjustment which I doubt I would ever do.

If the Circuit frame is the same height as the Haul (small and medium), then a strap height adjustment to 19 inches is going to give me a 30-40 deg. angle like the Circuit does.

Remember, that 23″ measurement on the Arch Haul is the frame stays unflexed so the top to bottom frame measurement will be a little shorter flexed.

Also… your theoretical comparison of load lifter angles between your ULA pack and the AH may be flawed as I think you are assuming the attachment points are at the same place on the shoulder straps. They may not be.

Just order one. If you don’t like it, zPacks is great about returns.

billy

@krampusoutside

Michael M –

I just returned from Big Bend NP and used my Arc Haul-Zip instead of a Gregory Palisades 80. I can’t give an exact weight, but I had 8L of water, three days of food, and the rest of my gear on board, likely pushing total pack weight to 35 – 40 lbs. I knew I’d be carrying heavier water loads when desert packing, so I ordered the Arc Haul-Zip with extra pads. I found the pack to be at least as comfortable as my larger, heavier Gregory, and the significant weight savings was noticeable in the Chisos Mountains.

I’ll write a review later, but I highly recommend the Arc Haul pack.

I had a brand new Arc Blast (2016) 60L for about a week and ended up selling it.  The main reason was that was very, very uncomfortable on my lower back with a 25# load on a couple test walks around the neighborhood (2 miles or so).  This was with an additional lumbar pad (and without).  My suspicion is that the narrow, stiff carbon fiber stay behind the hipbelt is a bit too….narrow and stiff.  I could really feel it putting a lot of pressure on my lumbar area.  So the load transfer was great, but the way it transferred to a small area wasn’t.

I tried adjusting the torso length, load lifters, shoulder straps, and location of the hipbelt in relation to my hips, but it was just a no-go for me.  I tried an old style Arc Blast 52L prior to this that my wife used and had no such issues with the same load.  I even tried packing the load completely differently (bear canister on top of the pack, horizontally, instead of inside), but there wasn’t much difference in comfort.

I really, really, really, wanted to like this pack but I have a suspicion that I would have hated it on day two of a five day trip..

I figured I’d just mention this for those who might have encountered (or wondered about) this same issue.

Drew:  What is your build like?  I am on the thin bony side and have had similar issues with other packs and always thought it was due lack of natural padding on my posterior… I own a ULA Catalyst now with no issues and am currently torn between going with a lighter ULA pack (despite the weight penalty vs the Haul) and the Haul.

@Skibbs

I’m 6′ 190#, and I’d say I’m somewhat slim but not thin.  It probably really just depends on the person, but Zpacks has a good return policy so it might be worth your time to try one out if you’re really interested.  There’s an Arc Blast on ebay right now for $300, too.

What is the hip belt like? does it have any flex in it? In other words does it move with your hips like the ULA Circuit does.

I love my Circuit and this would have to be quite a bit better for me to want to swap it out.

Willem