Starting to go UL, looking at tents

I can't advise on the specific tent choices, but in general my philosophy is that you will save yourself money in the long run by spending more now to get into the weight territory you want. If you buy something that saves some weight but not as much as you could envision while it saves some $$ now, you soon will be pining for "the one that got away" and probably down the line will buy the better/lighter/more expensive one, thus having spent the money on *two* tents. That's the expensive way to go, plus you will have delayed enjoying the benefits of the lighter, more expensive tent. If you can afford it, stretch now to spend on what deep down you know you really want and you will save yourself some dough in the long run plus get to enjoy the benefits of that upgraded purchase from day one.

How often will you go backpacking? How often with your wife?

How tall are you?

If you want a 2ish lb tent that'll work in the meantime while you save your pennies for a dream tent and get a better idea of what it is you're looking for, the Hi Tec V Lite 2 will do this (assuming you ditch their pole and use a trekking pole) for about $50. I have one and its ok. I've yet to use it in a torrential downpour so take it FWIW.

I don't know anything about those SD tents. Tarptent is pretty popular here and is probably worth consideration.

I know I would personally prefer to save an additional 10 ounces, however, if you are happy with the weight, go with the cheaper version.

That said, I would suggest buying a used tent here on Gear Swap. You could probably get a good deal on a lighter tent (like an SMD Lunar Duo or some Tarptent). And if it doesn't work out, you can sell it for minimal loss. Post a WTB ad and see what people offer

I'm about 6 foot, my wife is about 5'5". Ideally, we would go backpacking every weekend. But we have a 1 year old daughter that keeps that to a minimum. We go day hiking every weekend, sometimes 2 or 3 times. We're still figuring this out with the kid, but we would like to go backpacking 4-6 times this year and more when she gets older and can handle it. As long as we get a permit, we'll be doing a 4-6 day trip to Sequoia and Whitney this summer (which is why I want to start replacing gear now, so we're ready for a week in the tent with tested gear). I might go myself another 3 times this year (I did a two nighter without her 2 weeks ago and had a blast).

I think I might be ready to just get a nice tarp, but my wife wants a little more "luxury". She isn't particularly adventurous by herself, and humors me to an extent. She's agreed to the week of backpacking (we're leaving our daughter with Grandma) but that was a bit of a stretch. Should I be looking into tarps or is that asking a bit much from her? I would hate to spend $600 on something and have to turn around and buy something else.

We live near Chattanooga, TN if that makes much of a difference. For various reasons, we prefer vacationing on the West Coast and may be moving to California eventually, but in the meantime we are limited to nearby locations.

Take a look at Zpacks Duplex. Mine is 21.8oz with guylines, stuff sack and stakes (Ti shepherd hooks)

If you don't like it, you can definitely unload it in a hurry on GearSwap.

Robert,

As others have recommended, Tarptent and SMD are worth checking out for your shelter needs. I think they hit the weight/price sweet spot. I've owned products from both companies. The SMD Lunar Duo Explorer worked great for my ex and I. We're both over 6' tall. Plenty of BPL'ers rave about Tarptent's duo options.

I currently own a Zpacks Hexamid Solo Plus tarp. Zpacks is more expensive as all their shelters are cuben fiber. I would also scour the MLD website. They have many different offerings in silnylon and cuben.

Gear Swap is a great resource to save significant $. You can post a WTB ad or check the forums every day.

Also, you can't go wrong with a ULA pack. They are constantly popping up on Gear Swap.

I have nothing bad so say about SD or any other company, but I prefer supporting cottage companies when possible.

Good luck with your search. BPL is still a great resource for going lighter. Feel free to PM me with any specific questions.

Cheers

PS, there's an SMD Lunar Duo for sale on Gear Swap right now for $220. It's not seam-sealed.

I'll add to the list of tarptent advocates.

I go solo so have the Contrail model. I'm planning to buy the Notch model as well.

tarptent.com makes other models as well, some more spacious, all lightweight.

Tarptent gives you options too. With some models, you can either have or not have a bathtub style floor. Some models have removable bug netting as well.

You can ease your wife into the lighter setup, and then remove the netting / floor for more weight savings if she'll go for it, or just do so when you go solo if you'd like.

mountainlaureldesigns.com and sixmoondesigns.com are other options you might want to look at as well.

I also highly suggest looking at the gear swap area here for quality used gear that has been well taken care of, to save you a few bucks. Just do the research first so you know exactly what you're looking for. Show the models to your wife and decide together so there are no surprises. Good luck and happy hunting.

In my experience with a wife who love the outdoors but not so much the roughing it, bug netting would be a must. There's something psychologically soothing to be fulling enclosed and separated from the critters large and small. Personally I would stay away from anything without a net inner if it were something i planned to use with my wife.

I might also be able to provide a bit of insight into some of the tents you mentioned too. I bought the Flashlight 2 a couple of months before the UL version went on the sale it's been on for the last several months. Between the Flashlight and the Lightning, I would pick the Flashlight. It's lighter to start. plus you can swap the vertical poles for trekking poles and save that weight. The gear storage is also easier to use i think as well, little covered spaces right next to the door as opposed to a part of the rainfly you have to lift and a little window to access it from the inside. Lastly you get two entrances. In my experience, side entrances are easier to manage and don't disturb your tent mate as much when you have to get up for a midnight potty break.

The flashlight ul2 is a great tent for a pretty sweet price. and I don't think the newer FL models with their high prices compare well to the likes of tents likes of the TT Moment, the liteheart duo, or the smd lunar duo

I've yet to buy it but I'm looking at the Tarptent StratoSpire with the hopes of coaxing my wife on a backpacking trip. Lori P. brought a TT cloudburst to the GGG this year which looked pretty awesome. It's a three person tent that would give the two of you some elbow room and would accommodate your daughter as well in the future.

If I were to buy a 2-person tent today, it would be a Tarptent Double Moment. Drop dead easy to set up quickly, dual doors, lots of ventilation, good head room, decently priced.

But if you want something to account for the youngster as well, I agree with Ian, a Tarptent Cloudburst 3 would be a great tent.

Then get a sil tarp for your solo outings, they're not that expensive.

SD Flashlight 2 UL for $270 right here.

It's actually running for $195 on steep and cheap right now too. That's why I say it's such a great buy.

I have a SMD Lunar Duo outfitter I would sell for $100
PM me if interested, it's new and never used

I've looked at a lot of the tents recommended here, and I'm still running into the same issue of weight savings vs cost. I'm sure everyone has the exact same internal debate, I'm just hoping that everyone tells me their stories so I don't repeat their mistakes. The SMD Lunar Duo Outfitter for $100 (from forum member) looks great but again isn't the lightest option (weighs 57 ounces vs the 41 ounce explorer model) and I'm afraid I would immediately want the lighter version.

For another example, the SD Flashlight UL 2 on Steep&Cheap is $195 and weighs 48 ounces. This is last year's model. This year's model costs $370 and weighs 40 ounces. Should I be looking at this in terms of dollars per ounce saved? I'm a little afraid of having the best tent in the world, and still having a heavy sleeping system and pack because I can't afford to replace them all.

Let's say that I have $500 to spend on everything and I want the best bang for my buck. Should I buy just a nice WM sleeping bag and keep the tent, pad, and pack? Should I get a new pack, tent, and pad and keep the bag? I can make the current tent work for a season with a little maintenance. Something like this appears to be the best bang for the buck in terms of weight that I could get today:
ULA Catalyst (need to hold a bear canister) – $250 (saves 29.5 ounces)
SMD Lunar Duo Tent – $100 (saves 26.1 ounces)
Therm-a-rest Zlite Sol – $30 (saves 16.7 ounces)

This saves 72.3 ounces TODAY (over 4.5 lbs!) for $380. Or I could buy just a SUL tent for the same money and save just 37.5 ounces but I'll have the lightest possible tent as a base to start building my SUL gear from. Is it better to slowly build your kit one piece at a time, or replace everything in waves while selling the old stuff to help afford the new?

First, the money issue in general: I think UL gets a bad rap for being "expensive." Plenty of people golf, or ski, or engage any number of sports or activities that cost much more then UL backpacking. There is nothing wrong with being thrifty, and I am down right cheap, but you are going to have to spend some money to get your shelter, sleep system, and pack weight down even if you buy used off the Gear Swap Forum. It will likely cost more then $500 unless you are very thrifty and go with a tarp.

For a fully enclosed shelter, the Tarptent Double Rainbow is $289 and 41oz. Roomy, well made, from a great cottage company. Look at getting light comfortable sleep pads like the NeoAir or the Expeds or REI Flash series. I prefer to buy my inflatable pads new from REI because they still have a good return policy, just not as good as they used to. Look at getting good down sleeping bags, like something from Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, or a quilt from Enlightened Equipment. Being comfortable will help encourage the spouse. Finally, look at good entry level frameless pack like the Gossamer Gear G4.

I take my time and stalk items on Ebay and on the Gear Swap Forum to save as much money as I can. I have done more expensive things like buy a custom pack from Chris Zimmer when the cash flow allowed. The Double Rainbow can be had on the Gear Swap Forum or Ebay but they don't appear all too often. I would buy new from Tarptent. I see a pretty good market for used Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends bags, and the Gossamer Gear G4's pop up with some regularity. As I said, I always buy my inflatable mattresses new from a place with a good return policy and customer service. I have had 2 inflatables (a NeoAir and an Exped) fail in their first two years and was able to return them without issue.

I was in your shoes about 5 years ago…and started dipping my toes in the UL water. I upgraded my 8 pound tent for an "ultralight" 5 pound tent…woo hoo!

Then I upgraded by 5 pound backpack to a 3 pound backpack.

Then I upgraded my 3 pound old synthetic sleeping bag to a 2 pound down monster.

Then I upgraded the tent again to a 2 pound model. And I upgraded to a 2 pound pack.

After countless purchases/sells, I am finally at a 20 oz cuben fiber duomid with solo or duo inner.
After 5 packs I am finally mostly happy with my zimmerbuilt.
2 quilts later I am happy with my EE.

Point here is that I saved money each time! but as of now, I've probably spent THOUSANDS of dollars, when had I just bought the "more expensive" version first I'd have easily spent 5x less.

So the price on your big three is not really the main issue (as long as you can afford it…) – because you're going to end up spending SO MUCH MORE if you don't just get the one you really want right now.

My recommendation??? ZPacks duplex for both of you. It's light enough that you can take it solo and not feel guilty about it, it will fit both of you (since your wife is on the smaller side) and has great ventilation, 2 doors, 2 vestibules.

Of course, that Cloudburst 3 that Lori had was mighty sweet, too…..

Good luck!

If at all possible do a few trial runs before making your tent purchase. See what each of you values – space, bug netting, vestibule, and so forth. See how much time you spend in the shelter. If it's sleeping only then a smaller shelter will suffice; if it's a social spot you may want something larger. Rent or borrow if you can. Then decide if you want to shave every possible ounce or decide that it's worth a bit more weight to keep the bugs out (for example).

My shelters are not especially ultralight but I can recommend Tarptent very highly. The Scarp 2 might suit you two very well.

I agree with earlier posters that it's very easy to be penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to buying a shelter, and that the Gear Swap is a great resource – after you have a better idea of what you really want.

Robert,
I think at this point you are asking questions of us that only you can truly answer. Personally I don't think I could ever justify spending the money needed on a cuben shelter. I don't trust the long term longevity of the fabric and I would rather spend money on other things than shaving off that next ounce. Many others on this forum would call me a heretic and shun me, and that's just fine.

My suggestion is to figure out what gear you want in the long term. Make a list of your ideal gear locker. Do you want a 10lb base? or is 15 or 20lbs enough for you? Once you know where you want to be, then it's much easier to get there. When I'm considering gear I look at a few things: Can I find the item at a lower price? What is the ratio of weight saved to amount I'll need to spend? How much do I need to replace the existing item? What is the real benefit of upgrading from a nice liteweight item to the top of the line item? Do I really need/want the top of the line item?

Use the community for reference and information, but it all boils down to what makes you happy. I have a Marmot lithium sitting in my closet right now that I love, this in stark contract to the multiple warning I received from many around here that I would never get a great bag unless I went with WM of FF and spent nearly twice as much.

I would snap up that deal on the SMD Lunar Duo myself. The dual entry and bug protection will make it couple-friendly.

If you want to try a trap, buy a light blue poly tarp and test drive it in the back yard. A dirty little secret is that the cheaper blue ploy tarps aren't all that heavy. Most will require some fiddling as the center grommets are rarely in the right place. You can just use tarp grips for your testing.

+1 on replacing your pack last, as a light load in a heavy pack is better than an overloaded UL pack. Stash the cash and wait for a deal to come along :)

Sleeping bags are the toughest part for me. UL insulation is always the budget breaker.

We started car camping and day hiking with the kids as infants. They became summer camp staff and world travelers!

As mentioned, there are questions here that only you can answer about your priorities. I'll just say this-

I'd recommend that you buy the larger tent with your family in mind, not with what you might want to eventually do yourself in mind. You've said that you, solo, might be ready to try a tarp. Lovely! So if you know you're going to head that way some day for solo use then you can concentrate on family camping for this current tent purchase. If, for example, your significantly shorter wife wife hikes significantly slower than you then getting a slightly heavier but cheaper tent is not unreasonable, assuming that you are the designated pack mule. Likewise, to accomodate a growing child I'd err on the side of a *larger* tent. And (please pardon the latent sexism) a common wife non-negotiable position is an utter intolerance of creepy-crawlies, and thus an absolute requirement for a fully-enclosed bug-proof shelter. YMMV- some or all of these may not apply.

Then, later on get yourself an inexpensive silnylon tarp.

Keeping the creepy-crawlies away is a MUST for the wife. I am definitely the pack-mule of the two of us. We both have health issues which dictate that I typically shoulder the burden as much as possible. I have a genetic spinal condition however, and lightening my pack weight is becoming more important as I get older. We did an overnight in Zion Narrows in 2013 and my pack with both of our gear (roughly 60-70lbs?) was wearable but really made me miserable after a short time.

The baby has been great for training, since I bought an Osprey Poco carrier for her and I always carry her and all of her associated junk, along with a full 3L camelback. I bet this typical dayhiking pack weighs 45lbs loaded (I’ll measure tonight and see).

It looks like I need to get some quality trekking poles if I’m going to end up with a tarp style tent. I currently don’t use them but have been interested in getting a pair. I had a set of twist-lock cheapies years ago (bought in Europe, no clue what they were), but I hated them and eventually threw them away after they bent. I was looking at getting a set of Locus Gear CP3 poles this time around. Are these a good set for using with a tarp? I am pretty dead-set on flip locks (REALLY hated the twist locks).

Get some Black Diamond flick lock poles, picking a model to suit your budget (their carbon poles aren't all that light). Hiking with poles is like a ballet rather than a drunken stumble, especially with a baby swaying in back.

Locus Gear CP3 Poles are AWESOME! I have a pair and I love them… definitely would recommend changing the grips out for the Gossamer Gear LT grips – pretty easy to do.

If you would be interested in something just a tiny bit heavier… Costco sells some Cascade Mountain Carbon Fiber Poles (a friend of mine just grabbed a pair) for $29.99 (http://costcocouple.com/cascade-mountain-carbon-fiber-trekking-poles/) -or- (http://www.cascademountaintech.com/product_p/1010.htm).

The ones he paid $29.99 were flip locks and the graphic was blue and grey. You could grab those and then switch out the grips for the Gossamer Gear LT grips and you have a set that is 99.9% of the Locus Gears at about 1/3 of the price.

The Locus gear CP3 poles are really nice, you might check out 2015 LightHeart Duo Tent that someone suggested earlier( 2 lb 3 oz and $295) or Tarptent (as others have suggested also) are very good tents also Squall 2 ( 34oz and $259 ) Double Rainbow ( 41oz and $289 ) HERE is an overview of their tents. I am sure you will get many more suggestions but these are just a few to consider.