Cold sleeper – what to do?

Where are you getting cold?

How are you insulating your head?

How much are you eating before bed?

The how much I'm eating and what I'm eating has a huge effect for me. One I didn't realise until a friend pointed it out when I mentioned getting too hot early in the night and too cold early in the morning.

Now days sticks of salami are my friend, as is a slab of dark chocolate that I eat if I start to feel cold in the night.

(Not saying nutrition is your problem, just that's been the main reason for me to go to bed warm and get cold later).

How do you sleep at home? I'm guessing you figured something out, even if unconsciously, for the other 330 nights of the year. My wife often goes to bed cold at home, gets warmed up hypothermia-treatment-style by me, for as long as I can stand it (keeping my far side uncovered helps). If that (hubbie) works for you, a couple's quilt might help. I'm guessing EE could make a his-her quilt with different down weights on each side. That came up ALL the time when I worked in a backpacking store and we'd usually suggest different temp-rating with matching zippers for his-her bag combos.

It sounds like you're under-insulated below. A thin sheet of CCF might be the final, UL step, but you could test that with whatever ridge rest / z-rest you already have around.

Try keeping a warm hat and chocolate bar handy.

Is part of the problem not waking in time to add clothing and then being "behind the curve"? If so, you could set an alarm, and put on a hat, etc, maybe eat something, before getting over-chilled. I notice women work on longer cycles. I'll heat up and cool down more quickly after any adjustment and (small sample set) women, over that longer period, will get hotter and colder before reacting.

Let me preface this by saying that I suspect every cold sleeper is different – so what works for me may or may not do you any good. I certainly had to experiment a bunch, but now I can be reasonably comfortable in any temps I care to be out in.

For me, the most critical factor is keeping my feet warm. I don't know if it's psychological or physical, but I don't care, because it works. I was out in a 25-degree night this past weekend, with my EE 20 degree quilt on top and my feet tucked in the footbox – but my feet ALSO had a thick pair of wool socks and a pair of down booties on at the same time.

Second most critical for me is a head covering of some sort, and a mask when it gets much below freezing.

A bit of exercise before bed helps. So does having chocolate or carbs in easy reach for that 2AM chilly wakeup (fortunately I don't camp in bear country).

Ground insulation is a big problem for me too. With an inflatable insulated pad on top of a closed-cell pad I can survive, but I'm not happy at the end of winter when the ground is well below freezing and has this huge reservoir of cold for me. I can do better hammocking, with a decent underquilt, and you might want to think along those lines if you continue to be chilled on the bottom.

And if all else fails…CHEAT. A body-sized chemical warmer will be putting on heat as your body cools down. The weight is minimal, and it might make enough difference to keep you warm while you figure out what else you want to try.

Finally, if you're going to bed warm…if that was warm enough to be sweaty, then you'll chill faster when that sweat starts evaporating later on in the night. Aim for warm but not damp if conditions allow.

Catherine, your story sounds very similar to mine. I'd like to offer a couple of thoughts.

Right now, I think your pad is the biggest culprit. If your pad is the original Neoair, I think the R-value is around 2. I noticed that I was much more comfortable (no cold spots) on my Prolite Plus than the original Neoair. I know that 45deg doesn't sound "cold" but keep in mind that our body temperature is 98deg; that's still a pretty big differential to maintain. I would consider a pad with an R-value above 3; the women's XLite (3.9, I think) would be a good choice.

I don't know if you EE quilt is down or synthetic but I think down is much, much better at regulating temperatures than synthetic. You won't get as hot early in the night, which means less moisture evaporating from your body that your sleep system has to deal with. And that trapped moisture will make you cold.

I sleep much colder as I've gotten older. Where I used to use a 30deg FF bag, I now use a 20deg WM bag. I personally think that a well-fitting bag is warmer (less volume). I move around a lot as I sleep but I just move the whole bag with me.

Sounds like my story – evolved from a sleeping bag to quilts, never looked back.

Are you able to tuck in the quilt around the edges? I can reach under myself to make sure all the edges are sealed. I like that I can leave it all untucked in warmer weather like a blanket.

The things that turn a cold night to a warm night for me:

Eat – fats and carbs and don't hold the butter. If dinner was fairly early and bedtime was hours later, have a snack before bed. A cheese stick is usually perfect for me. I have a friend who packs a bag of coconut oil and eats a spoon of it before bed. He's slept out on snow or glaciers and says it revs up his metabolism if he gets a little cold.

Drink enough. Don't stop drinking to avoid getting up to pee. GET UP. Drink warm stuff an hour before bed. Getting up will warm you up again – it's exercise to put on a layer, exit the tent, wander around a bit and pee. I get warm immediately when I climb back in the quilt.

Exercise a little before bed. Seriously, a short walk or perhaps a little light exercise around camp – don't sweat, just move around some. Also, the more miles I've hiked (not fast, just plodding without lots of long lazy breaks) the warmer I tend to be all night. Exercise at home on a regular basis, exercise on the trail, a little bit before bed, and I'm good. Keep your motor tuned up.

Don't layer up so much. A friend insisted for years that her hypothyroid meant she had to use a 0 degree bag and wear six layers. She's found that doing the rest of my suggestions and taking off four of the layers really helped. Make sure your layer is DRY. Wet, even slightly damp, it'll pull the warmth off and leave you cold.

There is this phenomena that occurs where you feel colder than you are. Until you warm up the insulation of the quilt, it feels chilly to the touch. A hot water bottle (Nalgene, 16 oz is adequate and can double as a measuring cup or a mug for hot drinks) gets the footbox warm. Warm feet make the rest of you feel warm. After watching someone sweat so much on a 50F night that an entire baffle of a down quilt wet out COMPLETELY – after he kept me up all night whining about how cold he was! – I have a different perspective on the matter. I told him to go to the doctor. He found out a rash his doctor thought was eczema was actually a massive staph infection(!) so of course he had problems! Thyroid issues, metabolic issues or anything that affects your skin layers can make a huge difference. Sometimes a little medication and time goes a long way. If absolutely nothing works, it might be time for a blood panel and some checking. Chemical packs can be a godsend as well and might work better for waking up in the middle of the night instead of getting up to boil water.

Sometimes regardless of how warm it is when I get in, it feels chilly in spite of having my warm fleece hat on and some nice warm socks. So I do isometrics inside the quilt. Some time jogging in place (small movements) or pretending I'm riding the world's smallest bicycle for five minutes is all it takes. I never wear more than a midweight base layer to bed (other than the socks and hat).

I have inflatables that aren't typically understood to be good much beyond freezing, yet my original NeoAir (about six years old, and often complained about as being colder than rated) works fine for me still. A larger part of this issue is how you prepare for things. Hydrate well BEFORE the trip, hydrate better while on the trip, eat well, and exercise.

What's your bedtime when you're out? If you're sleep system (bag/quilt, pad, hat, clothing, etc.) are too warm for the time you go to bed, but not warm enough for the night, maybe it's as simple as going to bed a little later, when the night has cooled off a bit, and adjusting your sleep system to be warm enough for the night.

If the problem is that you build up sweat when you first go to bed, and that sweat later chills you, then maybe the later bed time is all that's needed. Maybe you wouldn't need to adjust your sleep system. But if you do, then add a hat, additional clothing (I sleep in a lightweight down jacket when it gets cold), and if necessary, a warmer (or additional) pad or warmer bag/quilt.

>> And if all else fails…CHEAT. A body-sized chemical warmer will be putting on heat as your body cools down.

I've only got an overstuffed 40f quilt so it can get cold very easily for me. This far south I'm usually good sleeping with a few extra layers. However, there is something I've wanted to try.

Arteries near the armpits, neck and between the legs are good places to put chemical warmers. In theory these spots should help carry the warmth around the body.

A buff or scarf around my neck is my first line of defense—it helps me feel warmer with fewer layers.

Considering the comment about it being colder beneath you I'd guess your ground insulation isn't enough.

Put on a pair of these over your long underwear/fleece pants:

I simply could not believe how much better, warmer, and more comfortable I slept when I switched from the exped synmat (R 2.1 ish??) to the downmat (r 5.9). I didn't realize just how much heat I was losing through the ground….

"Arteries near the armpits, neck and between the legs are good places to put chemical warmers. In theory these spots should help carry the warmth around the body."

They do in practice as well. Or, if your back is iffy, tucking one under the small of your back can do double duty.

I probably use chemical warmers half the time in winter, when I'm pushing the limits of my insulation.

As a cold sleeper this thread is a good read for me. When I got out of my Helium I started with a 20° ee, then exchanged it for a 10° as I was chilly when it was hitting freezing temps. After reading some of the replys I am thinking of upgrading my synmat ul to a winerlite when they come out.

Catherine, from what you describe I would look at the food/metabolism angle. Heat capture is essential of course, but if you are fine until the middle of the night when the temp isn't dropping that much it sounds like your body just isn't producing any heat. You already have some good ideas for that approach, I would try them.

A lot of good tips here. For food, I would say protein for supper is a big help since it burns longer. Also for you neoair, make sure it’s pumped up solid/hard; that’s when its R value is at its best.

Lots of good advice. I'll summarize what I did to remedy my cold sleeping issues:

1. very warm pad – I think the exped downmat might be a good place for you to look or supplement a less expensive pad with a CCF.

2. down booties – I don't know why but my feet are ALWAYS cold. These helped a lot! And I use them at home when it gets cold. I had to buy my wife a pair so she would quit stealing mine.

3. warmer quilt – I added a quilt with more insulation than is "typical". My rule is 10 degrees lower rating than the temperature I'm expecting. If you expect temps lower than the 30's very often, I'd consider asking Tim to add some down for you.

There are lots of different things you can do but I think the pad will make the biggest difference. If that fixes the issue at the warmer ish temps (40's), but you find yourself still getting cold in the 30's, I'd consider over stuffing your quilt and maybe some down booties.

As I read it, Catherine you start too warm and then wake up later too cold, so it isn't just an issue of "cold sleeper." I'm not sure remedies like hot water bottle, exercise, or even what you eat/drink before bed will regulate that. I definitely agree that a different pad, or adding a closed-cell foam to your existing pad, will help a lot. Beyond that, what about a second quilt as an overquilt? Start the night with the second quilt bunched around your feet, when you wake up later cold pull the second quilt over the first.

I think that making sure you are eating, drinking, have warm enough gear, etc is extremely important, since if you are doing "everything right" and still having the issue, the next step is a thorough physical.

Often I start out cold, warm up, go to sleep and THEN wake up to realize I am sweating. Not sure why. But I have interpreted this to mean I had enough calories and hydrated well, since if I were getting colder instead I would assume I was "running out of gas" and needed a snack.

Hi Catherine

As others have said, everyone is a bit different, but:

Your pad is far too cold for winter. You will lose a huge amount of heat downwards. Upgrade to at least R=5, maybe more.

You don't have anything on your head. You will lose a huge amount of heat there, and probably not even notice it. But that is always a good way to have cold feet as your body sends all the warm blood to your head to keep it warm. A nice fleece hat is essential.

Cheers

I just love this list. You guys have given me so much to think about.

Roger, it may be winter but I'm in coastal California and it really wasn't very cold. I'd like to get a setup that works for the Sierras in the summer and if I'm cold at 45 degrees F, this ain't it. I start out the night with a fleece hat and socks but they are long removed by the time I'm cold.

I've been thinking more about my sleeping patterns. I think I always go through this warm -> cold cycle. I've always been a sound sleeper and sleep best in a cold room. David, you mentioned that I must have a system that works at home, and I do. We turn the heat down to about 60 degrees (and it usually doesn't come on). I sleep under a very warm duvet and start out with it mostly off and end up with it mostly on. So the start out warm and end up cold thing isn't only when I backpack. I think I get my most deep and restful sleep while I'm sleeping cold, which is why I'd really like to figure out how to stay comfortable while backpacking.

I'm an exceptionally sound sleeper with a fast metabolism and wake up hungry in the morning. So while I don't think food is the root cause, I'm not opposed to trying having a midnight snack in a non-bear area and seeing what happens. Though, as David suggested, I get behind the curve of getting cold because I'm too deeply asleep, so the thought of waking up enough to have a snack is tough.

I wish I could take the suggestion of going to bed later. I need a lot of sleep, plus I get cold. Once I figured out that I need to go to bed when it gets dark and I'm still warm, camping became a lot more fun.

Even with feeling cold, I LOVE my new quilt. I'm never going back to a bag. I think I'll try adding another pad layer first, since it is simple and relatively cheap. Plus I could cowboy camp without puncturing the neoair.

I would make a change to your pad.

I don't have a Neoair but I have used two other similar inflatables- the Hyalite inflatable and now I use a Big Agnes Q-Core SL. Both of them, despite having the insulating coating inside, transmit a significant about of cold from the ground. I freeze when I use them alone. So I started carrying one of my old Z-rests with me to top my inflatable with. It increases the bulk of my load but makes my nights SO much more enjoyable. I still get the comfort of a nice thick inflatable, but the increase in warmth from putting the Z-rest on top definitely makes it worth carrying.

the increase in warmth from putting the Z-rest on top definitely makes it worth carrying.

+1

I got the chance to do a fair amount of experimentation this winter using various pads and configurations, and the solution that preserved the most heat for me was a TR Solite on top of a Neoair Trekker (torso/wide, 47" x 25"), with my pack under my legs/feet. With this combo I stayed quite warm down to 0F in an EE Enigma +20F, wearing my puffy hoodie and puffy pants. I ended up with the Neoair Trekker because it is (as far as my extensive googling could determine) one of the few – if not the only – air mats available in a wide/torso-length dimension. I like the 25" width because my elbows don't end up directly on the ground sheet with no insulation, and I also am a toss-n-turner.

Are you guys putting the 2nd pad on top of the air mattress? I figured I'd put it underneath. Why on top?

Placing the CCF on top of your inflatable increases the R-Value. Putting on the bottom helps the thermal performance maybe a bit but is used more to "protect" the inflatable from punctures/holes.

Why on top?

I did not test with Exped downmat or Neoair Xtherm, so the results might be different with those winter-specific air mats…

However, with Neoair Xlite, Exped synmat, REI Strata and Neoair Trekker… mixed/matched with TR Solite, GG 1/8" CCF and Kline 1/4" CCF (exact same material, the GG and Kline, seems to me), ALL combinations were consistently warmer for me with the CCF on top of the air mat.

This is highly subjective and personal, but I had read of folks using both strategies and so I tried them both. Several times, during the middle of the night I moved the CCF from the bottom to the top and was immediately happier. It's easy enough to find out what your personal preference is when using the pads.

I find putting the CCF on top keeps me warmer. My body warms the CCF pad but it doesn't transmit my warmth away from me into the air mattress, and it insulates my body from the cold coming up through the air mattress. It's also nifty for keeping my sleeping bag from sliding around.