Showing an Afghan vet my UL gear today

Sounds good, and point out that some UL gear is just simpler. I have packs that are even tougher then that Osprey but they have less bells and whistles on them. Army gear has lots of pouches and stuff and its designed for combat. On a camping trip you don't normally drag gear over rocks and through brush. And if you do there isn't the hurry of combat so you can be a bit more careful.

One thing to show him is how you fit a backpack. When I see soldiers it seems many have poorly fitted packs, this could be a government issue thing or it could be that they want a shorter pack so they can shoot while laying prone.

You might direct him to Dave C. blog, Dave likes gear a bit tougher then many of us.

When I was in the Army, nearly all of the gear belonged to Uncle Sam, so we did not have any huge motivation to take care of it much. Stuff was sitting out in the snow and rain a lot. When we finished a tour of duty, we just turned it in, and that was that.

However, when back in civilian life, we have to purchase our own gear and pay to replace it as necessary. So, we tend to take care of our own gear a lot better.

–B.G.–

Tell him to pick up Mike C's or Skurka's book. If he still has a military mindset he'd be all into RTFM.

Just tell him at the outset that he'll have to be careful with his gear. All this lightweight and ultralight stuff IS flimsy.
The good news is that he's probably used to knocking out 4mph with triple the weight he'll be carrying with lightweight gear, and having a pack on will hardly register.
To put that in perspective, while the tradeoff in durability is huge, my Exos, Tarptent, pad, and quilt weigh less together than the pack he's probably used to does when it's empty.
That's worth some extra care!

Do a "show and tell" with all your gear then load it all in your pack and let him walk around with it on his back…he'll be a UL believer in no time.

Yes, RTFM. Those books are good.

Soldiers are well trained to look after their gear when told to and told how to do it. Packs, etc are built stupid tough (and heavy) in armies not because soldiers won't look after them or can't learn or be taught to, but because in combat thoughts about babying your gear go out of the window, its a much lower priority than other tasks in that moment.

Show and tell, instill in him that it requires care, eg, literally, show him how to pick up and put down his pack. "Like this. Do that" (if you used those words in a demonstration with anyone whose been in the Australian Army, they'll never forget…its psychologically ingrained!). Things like putting a pack on and off he will be ingrained in a certain fashion…probably reefing it on quickly via a single shoulder strap (or some other awful looking manouvre that is probably just designed to be fast, eg, the good old throw it over your head manouvre…), and literally dumping the thing on the ground in an instant. Has to retrain things like that. My guess is that when it comes to using UL tarps, he will move into that realm with aplomb.

He's a Ranger, he'll be smart and stupid fit, and will have played with some pretty high tech other gear no doubt in his career.

Good on you Eric, and encourage him to join our community on BPL :-)

Eric, I can sympathize. My neighbor just retired from the Army. He spent a couple tours in Afghanistan and a couple in Iraq. I took him out fishing up to a favorite spot where he caught brook trout in the 1-2 lb range till we ran out of worms, last October. (He has a few medals, and is a really nice guy.)

A couple thoughts…
He bought an old Kelty at 3#8 and called it Ultra Light. I showed him my old MiniPosa at 15oz. He didn't think much of it till we went out. His bag was three times the bulk, his tarp was bulky, his food was cold eats. His pack weight was about twice mine, all said and done.

Needless to say he borrowed some of my gear and was amazed at the weight/size/warmth of the down bag as opposed to the issue bag. Super impressed with the weight of the two man tarp weight/size and the old SVEA (The JB ran pretty slow at 20F in the mornings on the hill.) And the bulk of the food I brought floored him. He had a huge stuff sack of household food. I had my typical camp fare for both of us, but it was about 1/3 the size of his. Needless to say we switched out his stuff and added a pint of everclear.

You need to get him out to show him how well the civilian gear actually works.

I took a guy out for a few days two years ago with time downrange. He took something like 55 lbs and was 48 years old as I recall. One trip was all it took to convince him that my 24 lbs was significantly better.

Eric,

I would suggest that you approach presenting UL Backpacking as simply an option for him to consider vs. "THE WAY" to do it.

Tell him that it is just like technology….he can use it (UL Knowledge) to help him go lighter, but that he needs to know its limitations.

Yes, the gear is more fragile, but with a little more situation awareness and care, it won't be a problem.

See how he wants to hike.

If he wants gear that is tough as nails, then the traditional stuff will be the way to go, but at the expense of being heavier.

Find out how he wants to hike his hike.

Does he want to go off trail all the time or is he going to be on a trail the majority of the time?

If he is going off trail, then something like a dyneema pack might be the way to go.

He has a lot of skills under his belt, which is great and will help him go light to start with.

The big challenge is that he is accustom to a heavy load with gear that is designed for serious abuse, so light for him might be 40 lbs….all things are relative.

Show him the way and he will like follow you once he sees a value for himself.

Even if he uses just a few UL methods, it will help him lighten his load.

Then it will be like a virus, gear porn, countless hours of gear research, talking to crazy people on the forums, etc. :)

Tony

I think the gear you have to show him, like the Tarptent Moment DW, are great examples of lightweight gear that is durable.

I'll +12 Skurka's book. I think it covers all the bases.

"Any suggestions other than getting him to sign up to REI AND BPL?"

That pairing sounds conflicted ;)

I seems you have sowed the seeds by showing him some gear. +1 on a book if he's a reader. Coming here would be better than letting some REI salesperson get ahold of his wallet! Somewhere along the line he's going to want to drink deep in UL technique, or not.

Maybe some back issues of the printed versions of BPL? I also find the regular newsletters from Gossamer Gear to be inspiring and informative.

Be sure to intro him to "Trail Designs" best purveyors of light weight stoves ;-) Let him smell the esbit in your kit and be sure to let us know what he says!!!!

What is there to get at REI? Stakes and fuel is all I get there, if that. BPL first.

REI would be a great place to start if he would be more comfortable buying brand name gear instead of immediately trusting in cottage companies, plus being able to actually handle the gear in store and not online. You can completely outfit someone there in UL gear, plus he can return anything he decides he doesn't like using.

BA Fly Creek UL 1 – 33 oz "packaged" weight, comparable to most TT models.

MH Phantom 32 sleeping bag – 22 oz

Plus Osprey bags, light canister stoves, any clothing he could possibly need, water filters, carbon trekking poles…

REI is a one stop shop for everything he could need for a UL kit. Just have to know what to look for.

Every time I've purchased something there w/out thoroughly researching it, and ending up influenced by a salesperson's suggestion, I always regret the choice.

Going in, knowing exactly what I want, I'm fine. This is my short list of things I have happily bought/would buy there:

poles
sleeping pads
compass
headlamp
hydration stuff/sawyer filter
electronics
clothing

You could put together a light kit from REI stuff, but it's a narrower range of possibilities.

Sure, but you can save by shopping around as they do charge full retail to give you your dividend. They use to be better.

So how did it go? What did he think? Interested to know how it went and wondering if he emptied his bank account already.

Mike was impressed with the low weight of my "base weight pack".

His first impression on just seeing the the tent was that it was too small. But once inside the Moment he liked it.

As for the pack, mine was too long (harness size) for him but he liked the low weight. Amazed actually.

I will put him onto Skurka's book. I gave him a "Lighten Up" by Ladigin & Clelland to read. It's a very basic start to the UL concept.

So far it looks good in terms of his understanding that our UL world is "a bit different" but desirable compared to even the best high-speed Ranger gear.

I have a couple of military sniper/ special forces packs made be Eberlestock and I think they weigh about 10 pounds, but they are indestructible. It's a whole different design requirement.

Bob,

As a hunter I have lusted after an Eberlestock Just One pack – until I saw the weight. You are keerect, WAAAAY too heavy. I'll just carry my rifle with a Kifaru suspension system on my regular pack, thank you very much.

Eberlestock makes similar packs for the military, mainly snipers, and for their conditions they are fine. I just wish they would cut the pack weight by 3 or 4 pounds by using lighter material wherever possible without sacrificing too much durability in high wear areas.

My wife spent 20 years in the Marine Corps.

Took her about 30 seconds to get the UL religion.

She said something on this trip that kind of puts it all in perspective; " I never want to hump a .50 cal again. Too damn heavy"

Another great introductory book is Trail Life by Jardine. The previous version (Beyond Backpacking) is what got me backpacking again after a 20 year break. I figured I couldn't handle the loads any more, but Jardine thoroughly convinced me I could if I went UL (and save a bundle by making my own gear).

It won't take much to convince him. Most of the equipment on the market will fee "super ultralight" compared to what is given out int he military if I recall what is issued to our Canadian Forces. Tried them on all their gears once at a military base invited by a friend, and it was crushing. The stuff they carried in Afghanistan made me feel weak.

The question is not if he will get into ultralight, but: what kind of hiking he likes?

Remember, nowadays, when people come back from Afghanistan, their backs ache and their joints are in poor conditions due to what is demanded of them. I know a few military personnels who are basically a 60-years old man in a 25-years old body because they were humping 20 to 30# worth of body armor, 10# rifle, and about 20 to 50# of gears. I know of one ex-Marine in Washington state who retired with arthritis after 3 years service in Iraq, and he loves the ultralight stuff.

So many of them become minimalist and embracing hiking gears after coming out of service. It's only civilians who have weird fetishes for military-surpluses.

If he into hunting or any kind of bushwhacking, which a lot of special forces veterans participate in, he might like Rokslide and Alaska Outdoors Directory forums. They somewhat embrace "ultralight" in the sense that they understand ounce equals pain when it come to hauling meat out of the bush or going deep into the wilderness. But the base weight is not that much different from UL. Most of the bulk comes from heavier clothes and more durable fabric. Otherwise, the rest of the gear-lists tend to be more or less the same.

If he is into trail-hiking, oh yeah, he will have no problem with embracing ultralight.