OK to leave down compressed for a long time?

[Alok Karnik]

Hey guys,

Thought I'd get your input on this one. So I ordered a down jacket for my mom from Moosejaw. It arrived compressed in a package that seemed way too small for it (all my other down jackets/sleeping bags from backcountry etc came in a nice big package). So anyway I called up customer service to exchange it, and they ASSURED me that its OK to leave down compressed for a long period of time, and that it "only loses its loft but not its performance". Long story short, I'm going to exchange the jacket (and some other poor soul is probably going to buy it unaware of its past history). But I'm definitely going to think thrice before I shop at Moosejaw again.

[Stephen M]

I would return it if your not happy with it. I have never been impressed by Moosejaws service, they are like a pack of kids.

[Miles Spathelf]

Depends on how long is long….and maybe even more important is how often was is compressed/decompressed?

Most likely the jacket is just fine… but you'll probably always have a negative feeling towards it so I would return it and purchase one from a local store or another retailer that will use a larger box for you.

I mean no offense as I tend to be REALLY picky about my purchases too. Not sure what that customers service rep meant by that loss of loft but still performs the same though. That sounds sketchy to me.

[Michael L]

I've received very tightly packed bags from some vendors. Like impossibly tight mailing envelopes. They were fine.

[Scott Matson]

I bought my sons down jacket from them and it was compressed for a couple days, it was just fine. Isn't your down sleeping bag compressed for days when your on the trail. Jackets are also compressed for weeks when boxed up and in the shipping container.
Scott

[James Marco]

Actually, it is fine to leave down compressed for long periods. How long is long? Well, I believe indefinite for sealed and dry packages.

I typically compress my down bag a lot, fitting in a set of long johns, a down jacket and socks in a small compression/dry bag. In camp, I simply shake the down goods out. I think this is around a 20-1 compression ratio. I have left it that way a few days at a time on occasion, and simply shaking it out is fine.

[Todd T]

I say the jacket's fine, don't worry about it. Toss it in a cool dryer for 10 minutes or so if it makes you feel better. Unless it was wet when compressed or stayed compressed for a REALLY long time (months? years?), I don't see how it's any different from packing things tight in stuff sacks when you're out backpacking. Down can rebound from a lot of compression.

[Philip Tschersich]

I thought this anecdote was good-

A guy here had two identical 15-year-old down bags, one stored in a loose, mesh bag and the other was in a compression bag for 2 years. They both looked pretty much the same when the compressed down was allowed to reloft.

Compression damage to down Sleeping Bags

[Elliott Wolin]

I have down sleeping bags from the late 1970's that still loft up good as new, and they've been in various sized stuff sacks almost all that time (almost 40 years!). I currently keep them relatively lightly compressed in large breathable stuff sacks, but they are still compressed, and the amount of compression must vary depending on how you stuff them.

I wouldn't worry unless they were stuffed wet, as noted earlier, although even that can be usually undone by washing and drying carefully. Years ago I washed a bag and sort of squeezed the down too much and it clumped up after drying. I rewashed it more carefully and redried it and it was fine.

[Roger Caffin]

Down may be stored compressed to a very high density for a long time with zero damage provided it is dry.

What Moosejaw sold you should be perfectly OK.

Cheers

[r m]

Makes me wonder what evidence is there to support the don't store down compressed advice.

The advice is repeated by everyone, I follow it. Hell I sell bags because I run out of space to store everything uncompressed. It makes intuitive sense to the lay man…Which makes me think its plausible that it may be a wide spread mistake.

Perhaps a long running BPL test (if no existing test exists) with a variety of syn and natural insulation is in order! Who knows, perhaps for some insulations types the extra compress/decompress cycles that come with storing things uncompressed might dominate.

[Alok Karnik]

Seems like there is a mixed consensus on whether it is OK, with about 70% stating that it is completely OK to keep down stuffed for a long time without compromising its performance as long as its dry. Personally, I always avoid compressing the down when its not necessary. I haven't seen anyone cite any evidence stating it is OK to keep down compressed for long periods of time though, so I'll stick to the safe method and keep it lofted up when not in use.

As a side note, there is a theory or theorem in physics that states that a spring that is deformed up to it's maximum allowed distance which is a product of its resiliency will "go back" to its original form no matter how long the spring was in its deformed state.

[M B]

All down is stored and shipped moderately compressed. From the time its produced until its used, and then from time an item is mfg until you get it.

Your down has likely been compressed for a year or more when you receve it.

[Michael Gunderloy]

It's compressed when the geese lie on it too. Doesn't seem to bother them any.

[Bob Gross]

It doesn't hurt down at all to be compressed for a short period of time. It takes a short period of fluffing to get it restored to full loft. If it is tightly compressed for a long time, then loft will still restore, but it takes longer to do it.

–B.G.–

[Roger Caffin]

What MB wrote.

cheers

[Richard Fischel]

the person on the other end of the phone at western mountaineering and a girl who was a researcher with the army at natick soldier systems. they both said the issue with high compression for any length of time was not damage to the down, but the lenght of time it would take to fully loft. a highly compressed bag could take days to loft, which isn't very good if you need it to be warm shortly after you take it out of the stuff sack.

[D M]

Folks, the military used to supply vacume compressed down bags for artic expeditions to save space.

[Bob Gross]

I think that vacuum treatment was done to remove the air out of the down sleeping bag before it was sealed for shipment. Otherwise, if the air was left in it, the bubble might burst from a pressure difference.

–B.G.–

[Elliott Wolin]

A friend in the Air Force said their bail-out kits sometimes contained a tiny, vacuum-packed down sleeping bag. During training they opened one up, he was amazed at how much loft it regained. I understand such bags may not be opened for years and they come back fine.

[Daryl and Daryl]

DM,

The following supports your post:

"The Army Quartermaster has vacuum packed down as hard as a rock for years and an hour after release it was back to almost its original volume"*

*From Light Weight Camping Equipment (and how to make it) by Gerry Cunningham and Margaret Hansson 1959)

[Bob Gross]

"almost its original volume"

Qualifiers like that worry me.

–B.G.–

[J]

I've wondered about this as well. There is a common debate in the firearm community about leaving magazines loaded thereby leaving the spring inside the magazine compressed versus leaving them unloaded and leaving the spring relaxed. The general consensus is that leaving the spring compressed isn't what weakens the spring, its the loading and unloading, constantly compressing and relaxing the spring. Also, if you think about taking a metal rod, such as a straightened out wire clothes hanger, put in a vise leaving about 12" free. If you lightly press down and release, the wire will bounce back and not have any change in shape, but if you bend it too far it will pass its point of elasticity and will not go back to the original place. So with the magazine spring above, theoretically as long as you never compress the spring tighter than its "point of no return", it should never weaken. In my opinion regarding down, what causes it to lose its fluff is the bending and breaking of the feathers (not counting other things such as moisture), so as with the examples above, the more you compress and relax it, and the tighter you compress it, the more damage will occur. I don't think the amount of time it is compressed has any relevance. I wouldn't worry about something being compressed from the factory, regardless how long its been that way. You will do a lot more "damage" from normal use of packing and unpacking.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Bob

> "almost its original volume"
> Qualifiers like that worry me.
That's after an hour. Leave it for a day and see.

Cheers

[D M]

My Dad told me about the vacuumed bags, he's fought on a lot of continents…….
About feathers/down….the iron spring is an interesting analogy but metal is not a feather. I speak from years of professional hat making and millinery, I used to make very expensive ladies hats…..we spent huge sums on quality feathers so we're trained by expert milliners on how to dye and use feathers, mostly ostrich and some goose and duck, and imitation exotics that are no longer hunted. Feathers are somewhat "live" and require periodic steaming and fluffing to retain elasticity or they simply get so brittle they break or disintegrate. So….. In relation to our down coats and sleeping bags…yes we're told to keep our down dry, BUT too dry and too much repeated crushing and mashing will degenerate the quality of the loft of your down filled products eventually, but that's why they use down as opposed to larger feathers with bigger quills or spines, because the down is able to be molded to the baffles, is smaller and softer and provides loft, springing back into shape. If you've ever had a sleeping bag of good quality for several decades, it's perfectly normal to have it restuffed or augmented with fresh down to regain its former lofty properties. Keeping your down products clean, with the proper techniques and down wash, hanging or storing them loose when not using extends the life of the product and allows it to retain as much loft as possible for its age.

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