- Feb 23, 2015 at 8:31 pm #1326108
I lost my much loved, heavy-breathing Patagonia Houdini, from circa 2009. My understanding is that the more recent ones breathe much less and I gotta have my CFMs. Can anyone recommend a similarly good, light, breathable windshirt that feels good against bare arms? (I didn't use the hood much but somehow I liked having it.)Feb 23, 2015 at 11:13 pm #2177297
There are at least 3 excellent UL wind shirt options, you can purchase today, which have performance profiles similar to the wind shirt you lost; they are the Arcteryx' Squamish, Luke's Ultralite Argon 90, and the Montbell Tachyon. In addition, with DIY talent, there is the option of a custom Argon 67 wind shirt. I can't recommend a best; each person has their unique rank ordered set of objectives; so, only they know what the best is for them. I high-lighted the option which has the closest CFM value but, there are other important factors. I haven't retested the '15 version of the Arcteryx’ Squamish but, also have not read of any changes from the '14 version.
Argon 90 Double Rip Stop 5mm Field of ViewFeb 24, 2015 at 3:53 am #2177309
could there be drastic differences in cfm over the years even if the garment remains unchanged (inconcistency in the coating process) ?Feb 24, 2015 at 5:07 am #2177317
I have worn many different Houdini wind shirts for back packing trips between 2 weeks and 2 months; I have not seen any change from their "when new" CFM values.
Last year Serge sent me his used RAB Alpine jacket (Pertex Equilibrium) to test. The wind shirt was manufactured by adding a clear PU coating to the inside fabric to reduce the CFM value. The used jacket's CFM was much higher that what other users were reporting for their new jackets. As a result I suspect that other wind shirts, manufactured with a clear PU coating on the inside to reduce the CFM, will have the CFM increase with use. In the absence of closely controlled additional testing my suspicion doesn't justify a caution warning at this time.
The only wind shirt listed above that has an internal clear PU coating, to reduce air permeability, is the Arteryx' Squamish. I have two 2013 Arteryx' Squamish wind shirts that I acquired for testing last year. I like their looks and functionality so much that I am now reluctant to artificially age them to test the rate of air permeability change. I wear them in the city as sporty attire rather than in the bush where my Houdinis spend most of their time.
I think you have a Squamish and so I was hoping that I could just wait for your's to get enough bush use for you to generate a long term air permeability degradation report (smile).Feb 24, 2015 at 5:59 am #2177321
Well, I have no Squamish but it's certainly on my wish list :-)
What I mean is this: will a new Squaumish for 2015 or so (if unchanged) have a comparable cfm as one made for 2014 ? I.o.w., is the coating consistent from year to year ?Feb 24, 2015 at 6:19 am #2177329Max DiltheySpectator
Richard, is that the unholy pentagram ritual marker of ideal windshirts? Can I be the human sacrifice?Feb 24, 2015 at 8:14 am #2177366Steve KBPL Member
@skomaeLocale: northeastern US
The easy answer is to transition to the Arcteryx Squamish. It's a tough nylon gridstop, a bit more breathable with a better hood and velcro cuffs. Since switching to the 2014 Squamish I haven't even considered wearing any other shell. It is breathable, has a tiny bit of stretch, repels snow and light rain, and has proven itself absolutely sturdier than it looks.Feb 24, 2015 at 8:21 am #2177368IanBPL Member
I have the 2014 Squamish and think it's great. It's not the lightest option but it's such a great piece of gear for me that I don't care. I do sleep with it on with a t shirt under to protect my sleeping bag and will say that it is comfortable against the skin. I always wear a long sleeved nylon shirt when hiking, but even if I didn't, I think it works well as a wind shirt.
I've never tried wearing it in the rain and I haven't had an opportunity to hike in a snow storm with it this winter so I can't speak to how it performs in those conditions.Feb 24, 2015 at 8:22 am #2177369Simon KentonBPL Member
Well this is my new favorite thread. Thanks for the updated graphs, Richard!Feb 24, 2015 at 8:44 am #2177382Will NewtonBPL Member
Squamish: Probably my favorite and definitely most used piece of outer clothing. Excellent cut, well worth the weight penalty over the Houdini. Rugged, great cuffs & hood, will resist light precip.
And a new clo graph! It's like Christmas.Feb 24, 2015 at 8:58 am #2177389James holdenBPL Member
I have two 2013 Arteryx' Squamish wind shirts that I acquired for testing last year. I like their looks and functionality so much that I am now reluctant to artificially age them to test the rate of air permeability change. I wear them in the city as sporty attire rather than in the bush where my Houdinis spend most of their time.
The dead bird strikes again !!!
;)Feb 24, 2015 at 9:23 am #2177394
Thanks, Richard! That's quite the info-blast. (And thanks, everyone!)
So, Squamish owners, the PU coating inside sounds like it would be unpleasant against the skin. Is that the case? I had a Montbell wind shirt (presumably a Tachyon) and it felt clammy. Hence my lust for breathability.Feb 24, 2015 at 9:27 am #2177396
By the way, I recommend against sloppily bungie-cording a backpack full of your layers to the back of a motorcycle and jumping onto the freeway. Also lost a thin down jacket and a couple other items. Think I might try a Patagonia Nano-Air.Feb 24, 2015 at 10:05 am #2177414Brad RogersBPL Member
@mocs123Locale: Southeast Tennessee
Thanks Richard for the data. I was under the impression that the Squamish had switched to a less permeable fabric similar to the Houdini post 2012. If they did I am glad they switched back to a better fabric.Feb 24, 2015 at 10:35 am #2177432Ryan SmithBPL Member
@violentgreenLocale: East TN
Man, those Argon fabrics can let some air move. I wouldn't have guessed quite that high, but good to know. Thanks Richard
RyanFeb 24, 2015 at 11:08 am #2177450
The Arcteryx' Squamish jackets with the same coating test the same CFM. They haven't changed their coating every year, but they do periodically. See HereFeb 24, 2015 at 11:15 am #2177453Steve BBPL Member
@geokiteLocale: Southern California
Where do other wind shirts rank in specs; specifically, I have a Houdini/Dragonfly from around 2004. Also, the now extinct Stoic Wraith?
SteveFeb 24, 2015 at 11:41 am #2177461
I will let you be the human sacrifice if I can use your description of the chart's dotted line (smile).Feb 24, 2015 at 11:51 am #2177465IanBPL Member
"Richard, is that the unholy pentagram ritual marker of ideal windshirts? Can I be the human sacrifice?"
"I will let you be the human sacrifice if I can use your description of the chart's dotted line"
Well Richard, technically, the human sacrifice is supposed to be a virgin….
(Editor's note: Ok at this point, I can finish the joke off in a few different ways so I'm going to adopt a choose your own adventure format.)
Option one: "and we all know about that time Max spent the weekend in jail."
Option two: "and Max only looks like a professional virgin."
Option three: "and well there was that one time in band camp."
Option four: "and even though it's safe to assume that anyone who'd dare to wear Vibram five fingers is statutorily ineligible for sex, Max has in fact been de-flowered."
(There are others but I'll stop there)Feb 24, 2015 at 12:22 pm #2177478
as I have access to the Dead Bird workbooks since 2004 and nearly always a half year or more in advance, I am well informed of new gear and updates before they even are available :-)
I just want to know if even there are no updates shown to something like the Squamish in a particular year, the cfm itself can change drastically due to inconsistant coating of the fabric-supplier ?
(for information: I believe for the Squamish the fabric- and coating-supplier is Toray)Feb 24, 2015 at 12:24 pm #2177479
I haven't tested the two you mentioned, but I tested many others last year. That information is posted in the forum history.Feb 24, 2015 at 12:27 pm #2177480
Now I understand. The two 2013 models tested identically and so I strongly suspect there is not inconsistent coating from the fabric-supplier.Feb 24, 2015 at 12:35 pm #2177483Brett PeughBPL Member
I am still trying to figure out why you guys want such a high CFM. I have a Westcomb Crest Hoody from last year that is only supposed to have a CFM of 10 but I feel the wind cut through it and into my R2 when I am wearing it around.Feb 24, 2015 at 12:36 pm #2177484
Good to know.Feb 24, 2015 at 12:48 pm #2177486Brad RogersBPL Member
@mocs123Locale: Southeast Tennessee
I for one like a very breathable (high cfm) windshirt but that may be because I generate a lot of heat moving and tend to sweat a lot.
In my opinion the high CFM wind-shirts fill a niche for high exertion activities (hiking, running, biking, etc) when one wants wind protection but would roast In a rain jacket or non breathable wind shell. The low CFM wind shirts don't seem to have the same usefulness to me and one might be better served to use the rain jacket one is probably already carrying.
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