what would a 10 # base weight look for a winter trip?

[Andy Duncan]

Thanks Mike! I'm not sure about other pack options aside from the usual ULA, HMG and Zpacks type stuff. The new collaborative SMD designs look promising. I saw something on their FB page about being featured in the latest Backpacker gear issue.

[Dale Wambaugh]

This made me think of the two guy who just finished the PCT winter/southbound. Has anyone seeb their gear list?

[Mike M]

Dale- I have, it's here

http://www.shawnforry.com/Margin_Walker…A_Hikers_Chronicles/Blog/Entries/2014/10/19_Last_Minute_Scramble_files/PCT%20Winter%20Gear%20List.pdf

those guys obviously have their kit well dialed in :) you can see some of their weight savings is through shared gear, but regardless it's well thought out and trimmed down

[Bob Moulder]

I'm holding out for the Arc Haul!

I spent this winter dialing/tweaking and without a huge amount of effort or exotics (except perhaps the Zpacks Arc Blast) have gotten my 0F base down to 12.87 lbs, 17.49 TPW (food for overnighter + 40 fl oz water) and 29.34 lbs FSO, which includes snowshoes and trek poles. I tried to be thoroughly exhaustive in the accounting, and used a digital scale accurate to 0.1g to reduce cumulative errors.

This carried extremely comfortably in the Arc Blast 52L. Idid not need microspikes. Of course, with full crampons, ice axe, etc, more technical alpine would require something with more carrying capacity and durability for scraping on rocks.

This represents for me a quantum leap when gear for the same trip back in the bad ol' trad days would've tipped 45lbs TPW with FSO of perhaps 55-60lbs.

http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=23143

Got me lusting over a cuben Duomid and groundsheet, which would lop off about a pound! But I'm not giving up the MiniMo!!

Anyway, have at it and rip it up. ;^)

edit to correct FSO number

[Mike M]

Bob- you wouldn't happen to have that gear list in a pdf by chance? I can't go to geargrams as my operating system is evidently too old for the Adobe version needed :(

thanks

Mike

[Bob Moulder]

Hi, Mike The pdf version is in my profile.

[Mike M]

ahhh :) my wife gets after me for weighing things to the tenth of an ounce- looks like you have me beat!

good idea on the deadman's, snow stakes aren't exactly UL

I didn't know that TR made a torso width, wide pad-good to know- I've always been too much of a chicken to cut/reseal mine :)

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Mike,

I too can't get below 17 lbs. with my present gear, which still includes a synthetic "-5 F." sleeping bag. I will get a -20 F. down bag soon. I sent my Eddie Bauer Karakoram bag back B/C it has a horrible collar.

My solution to cutting stove and fuel weight has been to use my Sidewinder titanium Caldera Cone stove & 3 cup pot. I use the Inferno insert for burning wood and carry Vaseline coated cotton balls for tinder. this has been a very good way to cut fuel weight to virtually nothing. I do carry 4 ESBIT tablets as a backup.

To cut down on boot weight I use NEOS over boots lined with felt pacs and a good insole and neoprene diver's socks as a VBL with thin poly liner socks. Never, ever been cold with this combo even in -10 F. weather for hours on a hunting tree stand.

Hopefully finding a good DWR down filled quilt to go over my WM Megalite bag will be the answer to a winter bag (unless my yuppie daughters gift their dear old dad with a -20 F. down bag =;o).

[Mike M]

my wood stove is a really small one (the smallest that fourdog makes), maybe I should look into his larger ones- typically I have good access to dry wood on my trips, just so damn easy to screw the stove in and light though :)

I picked up a pair of 40 Below Neoprene over boots this winter, great investment- when the temps started dipping my feet would get cold (I think it's worse snowshoeing, because when I'm trail running my feet never get cold????) regardless of sock combo, the over boots have cured the cold feet thing

when and if your ready for a over quilt, check into Hammock Gear- high end (and treated) down, very nice fit&finish and very reasonably priced; of course your daughters may come through too :)

[Bob Moulder]

DWR down filled quilt to go over my WM Megalite bag will be the answer to a winter bag (unless my yuppie daughters gift their dear old dad with a -20 F. down bag =;o)

When doing my tweaking this winter of the sleeping system I found the sleeping pad(s) a much tougher challenge than the sleeping bag. I was a bit surprised to find that the system that worked well for me was a sleep pad combo that weighed 1.8 lb while the quilt weighed 1.4 lb. Hey, whatever, it works, and I am very comfortable down to 0°F and certainly somewhat lower, but I didn't get a chance to test colder than that.

But in these parts, melting snow with wood as a fuel is just not practical.

However, having been convinced of the benefits of DWR down it will definitely factor into my future choices for down quilts, coats, etc.

Next winter I will tweak foowear and clothing some more.

But being below 13 lbs already there is not a whole bunch of urgency involved.

[Bob Moulder]

I've heard of people slicing up and resealing air mats… someday I'm going to take a look at those posts and read exactly how one goes about it.

I love the digital scale. Got it for another hobby so I guess it's multi-purpose and therefore UL compliant! :^) But I saw where somebody posted a picture of a scale with .01 gram accuracy so I feel a little… ummm… inadequate.

There's been quite a bit of discussion about snow stakes. I've been using deadman sticks for many years, and as long as there's at least 4 inches of base I've found sticks to work fine. When the snow is packed down and set for a half hour or so they hold extremely well.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Bob,

I won a Thermarest Trail Pro mattress at a Sierra Club conference. It's warm enough on snow so now it is my winter mattress and I leave the Ridgerest at home.

If you cut down your mattress be very careful of your glue selection. It has to be flexible AND strong. Maybe Lexel caulk would work. It sticks to almost anything, unlike many silicone caulks.

[Bob Moulder]

Eric, what's the coldest you've used that mat, and what is the weight? I see it's a self-inflator, and I saw some different weights and year models and can't tell which is which. I'm kinda spoiled on air mattresses as I stand at the doorstep of senior citizenhood. :^)

The Trekker/Solite combo gives me elbow support and is warm as toast down to zero at a weight of about 29 oz. I'm doing a trip tomorrow and Friday (hopefully camping atop Slide Mtn in the Catskills, the last night it's legal this season!) and it's going to be a fair bit warmer (predicted low 19°F) so I'm taking the Trekker and using it with some 1/4" CCF from Kline, for a total weight of 20.73 oz (1.29 lb).

Looking forward to the warm weather so I can use the Neoair Xlite shortie again!

[Will Elliott]

This is a great thread I'll be reading with interest. Having skimmed the list, I'd say ditch the SPOT and try to push whatever your current fitness level is up a notch.

[Mike M]

not seeing the link with SPOT and fitness level???

SPOT is part safety and part peace of mind for my wife; 90% of trips are solo and generally remote country- the SPOT has definitely helped in the peace of mind department :)

I would rate my current fitness towards the higher end of the scale; I trail run 4-5 days a week, averaging 30-45 miles/week (w/ ~ 7-10,000' of gain), strength train the other two days. I might be able to up my fitness a bit, but feel no real need at this juncture.

[Bob Moulder]

I agree, Mike. SPOT and fitness levels are entirely different things.

One can be a world class endurance athlete and still break a leg.

[Bob Moulder]

PS I ditched the GPS, camera and zipshot tripod already, for a total of 21.8 oz.

Using the phone cam this year as an experiment…

[Mike M]

I just ordered a iphone 6 plus- figured I better get w/ it w/ a smart phone thing :) it will hopefully serve as gps, camera and mapping, now I'll just have to figure out how to use it

[Dave P]

Wish I live where it gets warm enough for a 10# base-weight.

I live next to Wilmore Wilderness Area, and sometimes we get -40 unexpectedly; albeit, not entirely unpredictable as the snap tend to occur in January, but has known to occur in early winter/late autumn.

[Mike M]

Dave- we get those temps too, usually not unexpected though- I stay home if I know that kind of weather is moving in :) My base weight is still not 10 lbs, but I'm working on it!

Mike

[Dave P]

Heh, at the moment, my -40C/-40F sleeping set-up is the Jervenbag Extreme which is 2 kg (about 2 000 grams). It stays warm. The only problem is that it's a little too warm, and the ground becomes hard.

The other issue is that PirmaLoft One is pretty dense compared to 900-fill down and takes up a lot of room in the pack.

So I am thinking of a different setup with a different brand incorporating a sleeping pad which would otherwise turn the original setup into a sauna, but that's for a different thread; and I shouldn't de-rail this one. ;)

[Dave P]

But again, 70 oz is pretty good considering I have done slept a few nights in it without a tent, bivy and sleeping pad in the open; compared to your 74 oz.

My only gripe is that Jervenbag is way too warm, and the stuffstack is 26" by 12". It takes up a significant chunk of my winter backpack.

A 0F bag from Western Mountaineering would be about 8" by 17", and the XTherm is 9" by 4" stuffed; haven't done the calculation for how much room shelter would take up or an extra quilt to push the setup to -40.

[Mike M]

I think a two bag/quilt system has a lot of advantages, one you have two bag/quilts and thus a lot of flexibility :) a syn quilt used as an outer quilt protects the down bag and helps pull out moisture

if I knew I was going to face extreme temps, I'd add a syn quilt to my down quilt vs purchasing a way below 0 bag that just wouldn't see a lot of use, the syn quilt could additional be used on it's own in warm summer temps

[Will Elliott]

at this point, but I was making two separate suggestions. If you're trying to save weight, period, the SPOT is just the logical thing to ditch. I don't have one. All that being said, however, in your situation it sounds like the SPOT is actually worth the weigh because it keeps you psyched and your wife from worrying. Next on my mind, since everything else seemed dialed, was to try to make yourself more indestructible. It sounds like you are pretty set in that department too, though. Consequently, it looks like I didn't have anything helpful to add after all! Good luck.

[Mike M]

Will- all good

yeah the 4 oz of the SPOT has been helpful, hopefully never helpful like I'm in a really bad jam (but it will be handy- heaven forbid that ever happens), but definitely helpful where my wife is more at ease

far from indestructible, but I do make a large effort at keeping my health a priority (sitting here typing w/ sore legs from a 20 mile 6000'+ run yesterday :) )

Mike

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