Anyone use Yaktrax, Yaktrax Pro or Stabilicers for traction on relatively flat trails? Light crampons?

[Brett Peugh]

So, could one suggest then that the Yaktraxs are more for walking around on snowy and icy ground around town and on flat surfaces and the MICROspikes more for actual hiking on rocky terrain or do the Yaktraxs really not shine anywhere?

[Dondo .]

Just spent the afternoon hiking in the foothills near Eldorado Springs. The surface was mostly packed snow, with some loose snow,slush,ice, rock and dirt. The terrain was level to very steep. (The steep section was up and down the Shadow Canyon trail for you locals). The MICROspikes outperformed all the other traction devices I've tried including Yaktrax regular and pro, Stabilicers regular and sport, screw shoes, and get-a-grips. I suspect that they will be far more durable than Yaktrax and get-a grips. Not bad for 12.3 oz. a pair.

[Alan Garber]

DIY:
http://www.screwshoes.com

works the best

[Ethan A.]

Dondo,
To echo Brett's question, would you say the Yaktraxs and Stabilicers are more for walking around on snowy and icy ground around town and on flat surfaces and the MICROspikes more for actual hiking on rocky terrain?

[Dondo .]

Sorry I missed Brett's question. I think Yaktrax are mostly good for around town because of durability issues. The Pro version are OK for occasional light hiking; just don't expect them to last too long. Stabilicers are very durable. They are great if you work outdoors in the winter and are also good for hiking. Just keep an eye on the screws. They can wear out quickly if you are walking across concrete or rock. Just replace the screws as needed. Stabilicers are also on the heavy side. My size M weighs 24.5 oz. a pair. Screw shoes are the lightest and cheapest option. They also do a decent job of gripping the trail. There are a couple of limitations, though. The screws tend to fall out over time, so it's not really a LNT option. Also, many of my hikes start on dry ground, progress to snow and ice, and later to deep snow. So you either have to carry an extra pair of shoes or risk damaging your snowshoes with your screw shoes. IMO, traction devices that you can put on and take off easily are much more versatile. MICROspikes do the best job of gripping the trail of all the options I've tried. I think they do a better job of handling steeper terrain than stabilicers or screw shoes. They are also fairly light. My size M weighs 12.3 oz. for the pair. Mine are brand new so durability is still a question but they seem to be a lot tougher than Yaktrax.

[Ethan A.]

MICROspikes do sound like the best and most versatile option. Thanks for the great info Dondo. How easy and quick is it to take them off and put them on?

[Dondo .]

EJ, they are the quickest and easiest of all the options I've mentioned. Just fit your toes under the front of the elastic circle and stretch it back over your heels. I forgot to mention that MICROspkies really stay put. You'd have to be extremely talented to get these to fall off your feet.

[James Loy]

Now that I have found YakTrax totally unacceptable on both icy downhill sections as well as a light covering over icy surfaces, both downhill and flat terrain (see my edited comments above), has anyone used either the Microspikes or Stabilicers on icy surfaces covered by and inch of two of snow? I am curious if the Stabilicers clog with snow and then slip on ice like the YakTrax do. It appears to me that the Kahtoola Microspikes will be superior under these conditions, but I have yet to use them, but hopefully will later this week.

[Dondo .]

James, I've used Stabilicers under the conditions you describe and you have to be careful not to slip on the ice. I'm thinking MICROspikes might hold better because of the sharp "claws" but don't yet have direct experience in those conditions.

[Ethan A.]

Has anyone tried both the Kahtoola Microspikes AND Kahtoola KTS Steel Cleats? How do they compare for anti-slip grip and durability? The Microspikes are obviously lighter and I'm certain less durable, and they would grip less well with fewer and shorter teeth, but I'm wondering how much less durable and how much less grippy.

Hoping to pick up one of these options soon and try them out in the Adirondaks.

Also, any sizing advice for both?

[Dondo .]

>>Also, any sizing advice for both?

I can't comment on the cleats but the size M Microspikes fit well over my size 10 trail shoes.

[Ronald Cordell]

I've used the YakTrax Pro but only over the Smokies in the winter. They worked very well for me and the light weight versus occasional need makes the most sense. I have problems with them rolling to one side of the shoe or the other, and have to stop every so often to re-align them, so that's a pain in the rear. But I don't usually need anything more than the YakTrax had to offer, plus being here in Atlanta there's not much of a source for other types of light duty crampons. I'll definitely take a look at some of the other suggestions mentioned here. The trail and terrain that I used the YakTrax on have been mostly flat, covered with ice and little snow. In some cases it has been rocky, but not much.

[Peter Fogel]

Screws are the obvious, inovative, elegant, simple, nearly free, recycleable, reusable solution to this problem! Why would anyone not try this first? If you have concerns, bring along a small wrench to remove them, if you find them unsuitable, or use the wrench to install and remove the screws as changing conditions require. You can also experiment with placement and number, until you find the combination that works best for you. How much can a small hand full of small sheet metal screws possibly weigh.

[Monty Montana]

Beginning this winter I used the regular Yaktrax on dayhikes here in the Cascades, and I found them to be a terrific improvement on that occasional stretch of trail that has iced up. As soon as they were no longer required I would pull them off, because I had heard that they were not all that durable. Just looking at the design and construction I surmise that they were not really intended for trail but rather for in-town use, navigating icy, flat sidewalks. "Occasional" seems to be the operative word If they are being used in the backcountry. For the weight and price (9.95 at Sierra Trading Post) they fill the bill IMHO. When taking an extended hike into more serious terrain, I pack along my Grivel G-10's, an aluminum, 10 point, full on crampon that weigh less than a pound/pr.

[Ethan A.]

Hi Monty, even for day hikes, you could be tackling more serious terrain, and could be surprised by more serious terrain. How did the Yaktraxs work for you on ascents and descents?

How durable are the G-10s? A number of Kahtoola aluminum cleat users have pointed out that the steel version, while a little heavier, is a lot more durable.

I'm really hoping someone can comment on MicroSpikes versus KTS Steal Cleats.

[Kevin Sawchuk]

I've had good luck with the following:

1. Machine screws into your shoes (for dedicated running on snow/ice. They wear down quickly on rock but can be replaced in the field. Thickness depends on your shoes but generally 3/8-1/2". They will wear significantly on rock, somewhat on dirt, little on snow. I'd guess that 4-5 miles of dedicated rock use would wear them out. I like Matt's idea ( http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm ) of putting the screws in from the outside. This would appear to last much longer as there's more beefy metal outside. Thanks to Phil for this link.

1.5 REI has sold an instep crampon on a fastex buckled/webbing strap. It costs about $5 but you could make one yourself by getting two thick aluminum sheets about 2×3", folding the corners over, cutting two 1" holes near each end and feeding 1" webbing through these two holes and attaching a buckle to the webbing. It goes around your arch, is extremely lightweight, goes on and off easily.

These are pretty good on all but really icy stuff and sideslopes. On sideslopes they tend to slide around your shoe and end up pointing sideways! There's a lot of metal to wear down and these last pretty well. They go on/off so easily there's no reason to walk on any significant segments of rock. However I view them as for temporary use on shorter segments. I did climb the Mt. Lyell glacier with them.

2. CMI 4 point crampons (with neoprene straps)–11oz There are other 4 point crampons but the side holders keep them from slipping on side slopes. Have an integrated allen wrench for adjustment in the field.
http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/essentials/crampons.asp

These are durable and work well on most slopes. If you go straight up a slope (toe first) you won't engage the instep crampon so how steep you can use them depends on how flexible your ankles are and how steep you can keep up a flat foot (pied a plat) technique.

3. Kahtoola aluminum–18 oz. These work like a charm for everything but the steepest and iciest. They adjust quickly from running shoe to telemark boot size.

I've walked ~2 miles on rock with these. The teeth wear but I haven't had any broken.

I generally put crampons in a nylon stuff sack that fits them tightly with the teeth sides facing each other. The tight sack keeps them in this configuration and not pointing to and producing new holes in my pack.

[Ethan A.]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for jumping in – See * questions below

I've had good luck with the following:

1. Machine screws into your shoes (for dedicated running on snow/ice. They wear down quickly on rock but can be replaced in the field.

* How long (say how many hours of running/hiking) do these typically last when using on a mix of snow/ice and rock?

* How long are the screws that you use?

1.5 REI has sold an instep crampon on a fastex buckled/webbing strap. It costs about $5 but you could make one yourself by getting two thick aluminum sheets about 2×3", folding the corners over, cutting two 1" holes near each end and feeding 1" webbing through these two holes and attaching a buckle to the webbing. It goes around your arch, is extremely lightweight, goes on and off easily.

* How good are these on very uneven surfaces and slopes that aren't very sharp

* How durable are these?

2. CMI 4 point crampons (with neoprene straps)–11oz There are other 4 point crampons but the side holders keep them from slipping on side slopes. Have an integrated allen wrench for adjustment in the field.
http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/essentials/crampons.asp

* How good are these on slopes and sharper surfaces?

* How delicate/durable are these when on a mix of ice and rock?

3. Kahtoola aluminum–18 oz. These work like a charm for everything but the steepest and iciest. They adjust quickly from running shoe to telemark boot size.

* How durable are these on a mix or ice and rock? I've read in this forum that the teeth on the aluminum Kahtoolas can break off easily on rock.

* What do you use to carry and secure your traction devices without damaging your pack?

[Phil Barton]

E J, check this out… http://www.skyrunner.com/screwshoe.htm

Detailed overview of how to make your own screw shoes.

[Ethan A.]

Hi Phil,

I saw the thread earlier – thanks. I wanted to know what size screws Kevin and others used in the back and in the front of their shoes – 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2.

Also, while the screws will be helpful for a pair of winter running shoes, my wife and I use Keen Growlers for winter hiking and snowshoeing (they are surprisingly light and a joy to walk or snowshoe in), and we're looking for a more secure grip on uneven icy ground and slopes that the Kahtoola MicroSpikes and Steel and Aluminum cleats will best provide.

"Selecting Screws
Sheet metal screws are awesome because the head on them has a lip that really grips well on ice. This is important because the screws are inserted from the outside into the bottom of the shoe and it is the head of the screw that provides the traction—not the point! 1/2" long screws work fine in most shoes because they do not go through the shoe yet they are long enough that they don’t come out too easily. 3/8" screws might be a little safer in the fronts of some shoes. If you have a very thin shoe, or you are just paranoid about how thin the front of your shoe looks, then you can use 1/4" long screws. Be sure to buy a lot of them however because they come out rather easily. No matter what, do not use the screw pictured on the right!!!"

[Kevin Sawchuk]

Please see above–I've edited my post to answer your questions.

[Dondo .]

EJ, I've settled on 3/8" for my screw shoes. The 1/2" poke right through my trail runners and the 1/4" fall out way too easily. The 3/8" screws will also work their way out so bring extra screws and a nut driver. You can get a box of 100 hex head screws at Home Depot for about four dollars.

[Phil Barton]

E J, 3/8" is what I've used with a pair of Merrell trail shoes.

[Richard Sullivan]

I have had good luck with these this year. Extremely comfortable because there is so little hardware underfoot. The carbide microspikes are very durable and grip like crazy. No problem to walk on ultra-slippery surfaces like beach logs, wet lichen on rock, or icy rock, even at steep angles.

http://www.surefoot.net/products.php?cat=89

[James Loy]

I haven't tried this brand, but I have tried a number of very similar designs and have had too much trouble falling on slight descents due to the placement of the spikes ahead of the place where I strike my heel. I also had durability problems with the spikes coming out and getting lost as well as being ineffective on fresh snow on top of ice. Anyone else have any experience with this design?

[Monty Montana]

Hi EJ! Sorry for not being timely with my reply…got caught up with the demands of work, etc. The yaktrax work admirably well for me on standard regulation trails of, I'm guessing, 30% or less; some short sections tend to be considerably steeper. A previous writer stated that they slipped off his shoes; I have not experienced any problems with this, neither going up nor coming down. The grip was good, but then, the surface hasn't been pure ice, more like compacted "almost ice" snow. I don't think I'd trust 'em on an incline of ice. They're not crampons. Another writer said he used them going up a rock escarpment and they crapped out. They're not ment for that either as they're not technical gear. Basically, what you have are some big wire-wrapped rubber bands!

A lot has to do with the mechanics of how you walk. Some folks can go uphill on their skis while others just slide back. It all depends on your forward lean, foot placement and other intuitive parameters. So all these various ice walkers can allow you to be more sure-footed, but that doesn't mean you can throw caution to the wind.

As for the Grivels, I was mistaken. The G-10s are my steel ones. The aluminum Grivels are called the Air Tech Light crampon. So far, no problems, but since they're alloy I'm careful to keep them out of the rocks. Hey, how the heck do ya get rid of this stupid pencil?

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