Pad options, All about foam, open cell, closed cell, self inflating.

It's been tried – a lot…

CCF was the new high tech thing 35 years ago. The Mt Washington pad was the 1st I had.

The open cell foams absorb water like a sponge – and take days to dry.

Ps: You can order CCF foam in different densities. The less dense ones are softer.

For reference, my original 3/4" CCF pad weighed about 1.5 lbs – and was about as comfy as the current "base camp" version of the ridge rest (which is blue on one side and 3/4" thick). A 48" version on top of a 72" version would probably be very cushy – but as heavy as a self inflating pad, and a lot harder to pack.

The self inflating pads really took over because of the comfort, and the huge benefit of being able to fit it inside your pack.

The insulated air mattresses are as light as CCF and pack smaller than self inflators- but are a chore to blow up. Neither the air mattress of self inflator provides any noticeable warmth or comfort of they get a leak.

And personally, I'm convinced that 2 layers of CCF is warmer than self inflator, which is in turn warmer than an insulated air mattress — no matter what the R value says. I laid on them, and noticed which got warmer feeling faster, and the most warm after several minutes. It was very noticeable. I think there must be something wrong with the way R values are measured….

I look at pads from three different points: Comfort, Weight and Packing Volume.

Depending on the ground I am sleeping on, I can usually get by with a 3/4" pad thickness on most ground except rock. On rock, or hard wood floors or plywood bunks, I like a couple inches of pad to sleep on. For much of my camping, I sleep in lean-to's or sometimes on platforms. So, I usually carry a neo-air pad. I still have one of the original mediums that weighs in at 13oz. For short trips where I know I'll be sleeping on the ground, I have a NightLite I cut down and taped back together. It is 5 layers and lets me sleep relatively comfortably despite only a 51" length. I use my pack as something under my feet and my sleeping bag dry bag (turned inside out) as a pillow. On most of the ground in the ADK's, it is easy to find plenty of pine needles to sleep on. For comfort, both pads work well.

For weight, the neo-air is heavier by about 4oz. It weighs about 13oz but makes a terrible frame stiffener for my pack. So, I often have a two layer night light along as a frame. This weighs about 4oz. (Note that this is the older and lighter model.) So, the total weight for the neo-air is about 17oz with the short pad used under my head and shoulders. For long duration trips, say a week or two, this makes a very comfortable camp/seat area. For shorter 2-3 night trips the 5 layer Nightlight weighs about 9oz and works. It is just not comfortable in a lean-to and I often set up my tarp near-by rather than sleep on the harder floors (unless it is raining when I arrive.)

For volume, the neo-air is much, much smaller. It takes up about the space of a single nalgene bottle. A full CCF pad will generally be rolled up on your pack taking up about 6-8 times as much space. Even the fan-fold ridgerest takes up 4-5 times a nalgene bottle. I use the external pad keepers on my packs so the volume of the nightlights is not really a consideration. The thicker 5 layer pad does require some pack adjustment, though.

There is no one answer to these. The prolites are good on sand and the like, but are heavier than a CCF pad. If I am going heavier, I will just go with the neo-air. If you don't have to have a frame stiffener like I do, then you can go lighter still. My MiniPosa is ~1pound, it has held up very well at about 9 years old. If I can go smaller (fit everything into a Murmur, say) I *gain* weight(about 4oz,) but the smaller size makes me more nimble on the trail. I prefer the smaller size.

I doubt that sil-nylon will work to seal a PU pad. It will bleed moisture on contact and with pressure. Cuben or other plastic coating would be better. CLOSED cell foam is what you need for camping.

Yes, this is a very personal choice- almost as personal as shoe selection. If a thin CCF pad is so uncomfortable for you that you can't get a decent night of sleep, then that quickly makes camping very un-fun. (I tend to err on the side of comfort in my sleeping system for this reason.) On the other hand some people are perfectly comfortable with a thin evazote pad, and can thus reap the weight savings and durability benefits inherent to them.

That said, holy cow, a 3-pound 2-inch-thick foam pad is one hell of a weight and volume investment for someone who presumably isn't doing winter alpineering. From what you posted above I think that I would advise that, yes, you seem like someone who would love an inflatable pad. A *full-sized* NeoAir would cut your pad weight in half, and be much more packable. That's a full pound less weight to carry around! And, yes, you might find an even lighter one that meets your comfort needs.

A pad that is just chunk of open cell foam would, I suspect, be a very poor choice, though. It would collapse under your weight, thus losing much of the insulation or comfort benefit, wouldn't it? It would also hold water like sponge, as has been mentioned. Or are you talking about something else?

Don't dismiss the ThermaRest-style self-inflating pads. They now have a proven track record of durability, as well as repairability in the field. For 90% of hikers they should work just wonderfully. So if one might work for you, I say go for it; don't obsess TOO much about durability. For three-season I use a 1/8-inch thick full-length ThinLite pad (2.6oz), and throw a torso-length ProLite (11oz) on top of it for comfort. The ThinLite doubles as a groundsheet to protect my bivy- which has a cuben floor- as well as the self inflating ProLite. I have slept on lighter pads, but I find that this works well for me; I'm getting older, and thus using just a thin CCF pad is getting less and less comfy for me.

I wanted to "ditto" the comment above about not obsessing about the durability of a self inflator. I have a 15 year older thermarest with no leaks (yet). The fabric is the same 50-70 denier nylon they make tents out of. I think durability worries are related to the newer "super ultra light" versions made from very thin fabric. Stick with a "standard lightweight" fabric, and you should be fine.

Edited

I have given this a lot of thoight for my CT hike this summer.From looking at what others have tried, I am going to test out a full lenght 5mm thick Plastizote pad from Oware, coupled with a Thermarest Neoair Xlite short under my torso.

The full lengh CCF Oware pad weighs 5 oz and the Xlite weighs 8 ,so 13 oz total..Not bad.

In terms if packing, the 5mm pad will be cut down to 72" even and then scored and folded into 12" sections ZLite style into a 1.2" thick back pad in the pack . I have enough pack volume that it is no issue. The Xlite will be rolled up and droppoed in the bottom of the pack.

We will see how this works out during the next few months during some weekend trips.

"The full lengh CCF Oware pad weighs 5 oz and the Xlite weighs 8 ,so 13 oz total..Not bad."

Same weight as a full size Ridgerest. Love how durable, inexpensive that pad is.

I too have an ancient TR pad. No holes yet. But the 23oz…

Ken,

I like the Ridgerests as well and used one many years ago. The RR was out of the running for me or me due to the packability issue. I dont like carrying pads rolled up outside my pack. Nor was the bulk of the RR acceptable inside the pack.

The bulk is THE drawback certainly. But, if that is not an issue it is a good way to go that's all.

I fully agree..

And its a LOT less expensive than any combo that includes a good inflatable.

The combo I outlined is going to be over $125. Ouch.

I have been using this two pad system for years now with no holes in the TR Prolite. 14 oz.

http://40yearsofwalking.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/current-thoughts-on-sleeping-pads/

My first impression was that you can buy any self inflating pad you like and improve on the load you are carrying now. IMHO, anything thicker than 1" is overkill.

Open cell foam is a guaranteed disaster and simply not an option. If it is light, it will collapse under your weight anyway, let alone wicking water like the sponge that it is.

CCF pads are a compromise, giving good weight and warmth for the cost, but they aren't luxurious and bulk is an issue. A Ridgerest cut to 44" forms a 5" roll, which might fit some side pockets and will ride under compression straps well.

I use a Prolite small when I want light and compact but it is Spartan. I do use a Z-seat sit pad and supplement short pads with that.

I love my nightlight and came from a ridgerest and z-rest. The nightlight is a huge improvement because the back of the pad is flat! I put the egg crates down and have a nice flat mattress – no weird textures poking me in the back. It's also the perfect size for a frame for my frameless pack.

I like the Oeare CCF pad that is 8 ounces, used it with. Prolite XS on Sierra High Route 2 years ago. Check out Cascade Designs 41 inch CCF pad, mine weighs 4.7 ounces. $12, and is similar to the GG torso pad in dimensions, the egg crate style, but 10-11 inches longer.

Mike, I think that should read Cascade Craftworks, no?

Looks as if it’s THIS ONE.

Also: http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/accessories/lunapad.htm

Sorry, it is nice pad lightest have found with the dimensions and length, mine 41 inches long, and 4.7 ounces!

Mike, I also like to employ the dual-use concept by putting the pack under my legs and using a torso-length pad when possible.

Any Idea what those above Egg Crate pads have for R values?

A lot of the R value depends on where you measure it, ie, 1/4" or 3/4". Average was advertised by Gossamer Gear (before they dropped the full length NightLights) at R2.7.