Comfortable & Safe 3-Season UL Gear List

Neat looking list. Do you need to fold that ziploc pillows?

77 grams – Three 16 oz aluminum beer bottles

What are those for?

I didnt see any top insulation like a puffy or fleece.

@HK: No, I don't need to fold the pillows.

@Katherine: The three 16 oz aluminum beer bottles are for carrying drinking water. I found that they gave me more capacity (48 oz vs. 40 oz) for less weight (77 g vs. 81 g) than 2 of the 20 oz Glaceau Vitamin Water bottles that I had been using. Plus I can boil water in them in a pinch. If for some reason I need to carry more than 3/4 gallon, I put water in a "pillow" ziploc bag, but that bag inside the second ziploc bag, and carry it in the outside rear pouch of my G4. Platypus soft bottles are lighter still and will probably be my next investment.

@Dale: I meant to add the following above my list before I posted it, and have revised the OP to include it now:

One of the ways I got my 3-season base weight under 10 lbs. was by getting a Winter Wren Nano sleeping bag from Feathered Friends, which has two small zippers at the shoulders and a draw-string foot box. You open the zippers and foot box to put your arms and legs out to wear it like a full length hooded vest, and leave the puffy at home. For 4-season trips the puffy comes along too. The Rock Wren is lighter, but I prefer the added comfort and safety of a bag rated to 25* F.

Someone likes fire. That's a lot of firelighting supplies.

18.3 grams – Water & Windproof matches
22.6 grams – 2 mini Bics
26.1 grams – Steel & striker
7.7 grams – oilwood chips
7.1 grams – Vaseline-soaked cotton balls
31.6 grams – "Firelighter" "matches"
14.4 grams – Coghlan’s Emergency Tinder fibrous paraffin balls

Too much.

Well, like the title of the thread says, safe. Jack London's "To Build a Fire" made a big impression on me when I was young. Fire building redundancy is one of the small luxuries I allow myself, although I could probably shave off a couple of ounces.

I'm a freak for fire supplies and this is too much for me. Matches, one lighter, fire steel and one type of tinder are plenty.

I use a mini bic for daily stuff and keep the fire steel and matches in reserve for emergencies. I always carry a 3.5" lock blade knife that goes in the fire making column too.

If you really want a fire starter, get the Orion flare style ones. That trumps the Jack London phobia hands down.

http://www.walmart.com/msharbor/ip/S-R-Fire-Starter-Signal-2-Pack/20434384

A wind suit and a rain suit on the same trip? Look at the forecast, then pack.

So I edited the OP to swap the wind shirt and pants for a Montbell hooded puffy, eliminate a couple of tinders, and swap a Platypus 2L for the three aluminum beer bottles.

You have a 2l Platy on your list. Do you have it or not along with the three other bottles?

"Platypus soft bottles are lighter still and will probably be my next investment."

36 grams – 2L Platypus soft water bottle

Dave, does the beer taste wash out pretty well? i use powerade bottles right now but am always up for trying different bottles. (but don't like beer lol so my brother might be in charge of emptying said bottle)

"The three 16 oz aluminum beer bottles are for carrying drinking water."

What are these, mini growlers? Where do you get them?

I think of beer bottle = glass, beer in aluminum = can. Is there some obscure micro brewery using aluminum bottles?

@Ken: My original post had three 16 oz aluminum beer bottles, but after considering one of Katherine's posts and looking at the specs and price for a 2L Platypus I ordered one and edited the OP. I will be taking only the Platypus after it arrives.

@Jake: The beer taste washes out completely. Thank goodness (see below). Hope your bro' is a weak pilsner fan. I originally got the bottles to play with for making alcohol stoves and multi-use water bottles/cook pots, but when I realized they held more and weighed less than the plastic bottles I had been using I switched over. If I remember correctly, I originally used 20 oz Gatorade bottles until I weighed one and discovered it was 32 grams – at which point I switched to the Glaceau Vitamin Water bottles – nearly as much as the 2L Platypus!

@Katherine: Not microbreweries at all. Coors and Budweiser both use them, probably others too. I didn't know they existed until about a year or so ago when someone here on BPL mentioned them, but now I notice them all the time at Safeway, Lucky's, 7-11, etc. The Budweisers are a bright blue. Here is a picture of a Coors:

The BIG difference imho between the UL Al bottles and a rocket-base PET bottle of 1.25 L capacity is durability.

I can drop a full PET bottle 6 m onto hardish ground and it will bounce and not be damaged. I spent an amusing half hour throwing one up in the air many times to see how it survived. I even let it bounce on sheet rock. It remained secure and leak-proof at the end. Dunno about the Al bottles tho'.

Yeah, too many fire lighters. I carry one Bic in the pot, and one Bic in the FAK.

Cheers

Roger, what is "rocket-base"?

I'm sure the aluminum bottles couldn't withstand the pounding you describe without damage or leaks. But I can boil water in them, which was my original reason for trying them out, as a weight-saving multi-use strategy combining water carrier and cook pot.

As for firelighters, I've had Bics fail me in wet and/or windy conditions, and I'm assuming an emergency scenario where it's wet and/or windy. Hence the water & windproof matches. The steel & striker are for a worst-worst case scenario in which my 10 matches have been used up.

Also, do you also mean that you don't carry any emergency tinder? I personally don't have the skill or risk tolerance to rely on starting a wood fire in wet and windy conditions without some kind of high-performance tinder.

David, go look at a standard two-liter plastic bottle of Coke, Pepsi, or whatever. Look at the bottom. That is Roger's rocket-base.

–B.G.–

Hi David

"Rocket-base" – standard (industry) term. They are as BobG noted. Extremely robust, by law (for shipping).

> I've had Bics fail me in wet and/or windy conditions
Differing philosophies maybe. I wouldn't try to use a lighter – nor would I try to make a fire, under wild, wet and windy conditions. I wouldn't even try to make a fire in the pouring rain. Miserable exercise. I would keep going to a more sheltered place OR put my tent up and get inside it. Or do what we sometimes do around the sandstone cliffs of the Blue Mts here in Oz: find a nice dry overhang with protection from the wind. Many of them are known as 'camping caves'; some even have a bit of dry wood stacked up.

Let's be realistic: if it is that wild out there that you can't use a Bic, 10 matches are not going to get you very far either. Steel and striker – under wet and windy conditions? I think not.

> Emergency tinder
Chuckle. Not ruddy likely. If the conditions are that bad, I (we) get our tent up fast and get into it fast. All our tents are tunnels, and can be pitched even in a howling storm very fast and safely (see our series of articles on tunnels). Then we get changed out of all our wet gear, and very soon I have the canister stove set up, water on, and hot soup coming. Beats the hell out of trying to light a wood fire in the rain!

Could I or Sue light a fire in the rain? Sure, but why (especially in alpine country)?

Btw, a trick for the cunning: a very small (10 cc?) plastic watertight container filled with Esbit chips weighs very little and takes almost zero space. Works wonders on wet wood.

Cheers

del

Roger, just different visions of worst case scenarios. I'm preparing for a worst case scenario where I'm essentially immobile for some reason (injury, lost but know others are searching for me, white-out in snow storm, other) and tent and stove are not available for some reason (damage, loss, separation from partner, running out of fuel, other).

The ten matches are wind and water proof and burn for about 5 seconds. The steel & striker work even when soaking wet. Combined with good tinder you at least have a chance.

It's about three ounces of potentially life-saving insurance for zombie apocolypses. I keep it with my other "10 Essentials".

I'll have to give the Esbit thing a try.

Rick, you are correct about the plastic lining in aluminum beer cans. It is hardened with a wee bit of BPA in it, which is another reason not to use the aluminum bottles.

Hi David

> I'm preparing for a worst case scenario where I'm essentially immobile for some reason …
> potentially life-saving insurance for zombie apocolypses
OK, that's fair enough – but in that case how will you collect firewood? And keep collecting firewood for a day or two? Could be difficult with a broken leg or in the snow.

This is where each person has to make his or her own judgement call. In my case, I don't plan for zombie apocolypses or WW III, I do not become separated from my pack, and I do not become separated from my walking partner (my wife). Works for me.

Cheers