@Brad P  – Are you sure that there might not have been another reason you were cold – dehydrated?,  not enough fuel(food)?, etc?  I think Thermarest had the Vesper quilts EN Rated (though I’m not sure how well that works with quilts).  and the 9oz of 900fp down should be plenty to keep the “average” person warm down to at least the mid 30’s.  For example the Katabatic Palisade, which is almost universally accepted as conservative has 9.5oz of 900fp down and is rated to 30*F.

The old Golite Ultra 20 quilt, which I own had 9.5oz of 800fp down, and though it was not warm enough for most as a 20* quilt, it was more than adequate for just about everyone at 30*F and I found it good to about 25*.  My 20* quilt, which I bought in 2010 has 12oz of 850fp down and has been good to the upper teens with just a baselayer top and bottom.  At the time the Nunatak 20* quilts had less than 12oz of down if I remember correctly.

Of course my experience is with either a Ridgerest (which I find warmer than it’s R rating), or an X-Therm, and the EN ratings assume a pad with an R value of 5? .   The Uberlite may be just as much of a culprit as the Vesper, as though I haven’t tried it, it appears to just be an uninsulated air pad, which are notoriously cold.  Did you try the Vesper for more than one night?  Did you try it with a different pad or try a different bag?  Do you historically sleep cold?  Quilt experience?

*****Edit – One more thing?  What did you wear on your head as insulation?

I’m not discounting your experience, in fact, I think it’s very valuable for the community, I’m just trying to figure out why the Vesper wasn’t warm enough, since on paper, it should at least be warm enough at those temps.

Good review, Andrew. I much prefer a long since I pull it over my head with only my face out. It saves the hassle of an extra hat/balaclava for sleeping at 20F temps. I am not sure a draft collar is the correct option in this case, though. I need my down jacket for sleeping at 20F, anyway.

While I also prefer a wide, the Vesper is already wider than most other quilts. This makes it a nice buy. As I said, with a jacket on, this makes a nice cover even bulked up. (I toss and turn a lot, too.)

The packing size is impressive. Probably due to the 900FP down. I usually keep all my “dry” gear in a single small compression/dry bag: socks, long-johns, jacket, quilt. The packing size (volume) means a lot to weight savings. Spending the extra 4.5oz on a compression sack means a smaller, lighter pack. Pretty much a break even on weight, but it also means a smaller, more maneuverable hiker on the trail.

I would think your hat and apple pie should have kept your head warm and metabolism up.  I’m not sure a thinlight under the Uberlite did much good, but I would have still have thought you would have been warm in the 40’s.  It will be interesting to see what others think about the Vesper line of quilts.  I’m not sure one would be my top choice as regular retail, but I imagine you will be able to find them at 20-25% off retail regularly.

You had me go re-visit a spreadsheet that I made for a friend several years ago comparing quilts.  I did notice that most quilt makers have considerably more down fill then they did a few years ago.  For comparison a few years ago the Nunatak 20* Arc had 12oz, the EE Enigma 20* had 11.6oz, the Katabatic Alsek 22* had (and has) 12.4oz, and the Z-Packs 20* had 11.9oz.  All of those are right in line with the Vesper 20’s 12oz of down, but all of those makers, except for one have increased the amount of down fill they have

Here is the current spreadsheet (The Javan Dempsey is my quilt):

Just wondering what was used to gauge/ measure the temp. Brad? I bought a very accurate small fridge thermometer a while back and the temps reported by our Bureau of Meteorology did not match at all, the temps in my tent. I use a WM Megalite, went off quilts.

Thanks Brad. Your Uberlite and thinlight combo were not the problem.

The little plastic thermometer I myself wouldn’t trust. Are the Fenixs reliable off the wrist for just an hour?

If so, it sounds like you’ve found the limit for you in that quilt.

Nunatak I reckon is an excellent (perhaps the) benchmark-  their -1C (30F) ArUL quilt uses 330-360 (in the long) grams of down. They are always rated as faithful to their ratings. Their 40F uses 280 grams in an excellent quilt by all accounts.

I don’t think the Vesper uses that much does it?

Sorry just checked above and saw 10 ounces 280 grams-whoops there is the problem!!

That is not a 0C So called ‘Comfort’ item. Sounds far more like 5C to 6 C (42F)  to me.

That fill amount combined with poor draught management/attachment and it makes sense you were cold.

You and me both find strap attachments on quilts a problem. The cold air chases the hot and gets sucked in to any and every gap there is.

The Megalite was my solution. Sounds like you have found yours.

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Graham, geography dictates microclimates, so nothing strange about your experience. Also, temp is measured several feet above the ground to keep ground temps from effecting air temp.</p>
My first camp quilt was a T-rest Corus. Rated to 35 using 650 fill. A bit bulky but very fluffy. Often had it in upper 20s wearing Smartwools and a hat. Never been cold in it with a Xlite regular pad. I’m 5-7, 200 lbs, side sleeper. T-rest got it right cutting their teeth on a none-UL quilt. I’ve been waiting on a quality field report on the Vesper and really appreciate Andrew’s insightful write up! One point not mentioned is Cascade Design’s warranty. Cottage firms understandably cannot match it. But I’m glad the Vesper is out there. It will make some of us older and now larger guys experience a quality quilt without regret.

The air temperature at night is one thing, the ground temp something else. Ground temp varies with hours of sunlight available. A flat camping spot at the base of a northside cliff could have much damper and cooler ground temps than dry, warm soil on a south facing site.

Outside of the microclimate point, our metabolism changes as we age. There may be no “one” factor that has us sleep colder, but degrees of several factors. The old I get the more important staying warm has become!

Cheers
Bill in Roswell, GA

“hydrophobic  down”. 👎

Andrew,

I picked up one of these at REI sale last month.  I would rather that the pad straps allowed me to tuck  the quilt up against or under me when it is cold.  Like the REI trail quilt.  I was wondering if you have figured out a way to modify the attachment system.  Thanks

I bought one of these shortly after they hit the market. I love it and still am using it. I did end getting a second connecting strap, and with that drafts are not a problem. I’ve not noticed any clumping or cold spots, but this is my first quilt, so maybe I’m overestimating it. I can say with confidence that the 10d fabric is superb. Soft and very tough. I sleep next to my dog on almost all trips and his claws frequently contact it. No damage after hundreds of contacts. He’s also almost always wet or damp in the tent, and although the outer fabric sometimes gets wet and appears saturated, I’ve never noticed a loss of loft or cold spot as a result, so I think the hydrophobic down is working. The main reason I bought this quilt over others is that the hydrophobic down is Nikwax, rather than a PFC DWR. Nikwax is not as hydrophobic, nor as long lasting, as PFC DWR when applied to outerwear, but it seems to work well on feathers inside a protective shell.