Páramo Vista Rain Jacket Review

Miquel you're a little shorter than me plus (this from memory so I might be wrong) the Quito is shorter than the VAL and the Vista. The point on length is the Quito is *NO* cycling cut, its more a walking length for when paired with waterproof trews. So long as everyone knows that then the length is not important. There's a video currently on Paramo's site about Quito for cycling, plus the cyclist is wearing cotton jeans….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s51N_MAmvyQ

I'd have bought the Vista if it had pitzips and if even longer but pitzips are essential for venting in my book – I have pitzips in my waterproof Marmot Aegis I use in warmer rain.

I also own the Summit Hoodie + Fuera Ascent combo – also both with large pitzips but a much more heavy package.

Its rained 4 days nonstop here and I was wearing Quito outdoors all the time, biking with OMM Kamleika pants or walking with Paramo Velez pants. The really liberating aspect is the comfort, if its cool enough wear it, and don't worry.

Once the lighter fabrics came in, packabability became viable, I measure the weights and volumes of all my outdoors gear. Clearly down wins weight/volume but that's more campwear/cold/clear type situations whilst Paramo is more outdoors/cool/unpredictable type situations. The Quito is a little heavier and a little larger packed than an synthetic insulated water-resistant hooded jacket, i.e. its basically an insulating softshell with good waterproof features thrown if for little weight/volume penalty. Hence when packing for an outdoors trip, if its cool enough, with any possibility of damp, I take Paramo, it just does so much so well in a good weight story.

Once it stops raining here, I'll be doing the Nikwax thang….

Yes know that but it takes some skill, you can make it look bad and ruin any resale value. So… be sure of what you want and how to accomplish. I pondered it quite seriously for a while because I wanted to keep torso and sleeve length but remove sleeve+torso width.

It is somewhat unfair, not sure why it is thus, but larger sizes with more fabric are the same cost as smaller sizes (mediums of the world are subsidizing the larges of the world including paying their fuel to lug them off the runway, but I digress), and in fact many large sizes are more commonly in sales (how many times we see only XS and XL in sales?). However, you can take a Paramo item which is too-much in one dimension, a common one is the circumference of the torso, and unstitch, remove slices from panels and restitch. It's waterproofing is not affected. Part of why I didn't do that with the Quito was the position of the side-vents really needed fabric removed from both front+rear panels, plus the arms too wide so I counted 7 panels affected.

Cioch is probably the way to go, but a reason I did not is I'm still ignorant myself of what constitutes a good fit, I can only tell if something I'm wearing is of a need for more/less of something but not exactly how that would be accomplished, you're talking Saville Row made-to-measure skills. I guess in the modern era with computers it knows about shoulder rotations and other methods to not have flap but have enough room as you move your body. Clever Cioch?

Cioch is now removing the VAT for orders outside the EU. The listed prices are including VAT.

This at least helps cover the shipping for those of us in the US!

Nigel,

I bought a Paramo Valez adventure Light Smock and Cascada trousers recently and found the fit perfect and I ain't no Hobbit :-)

You are better stocked than some shops Nigel ;-)

That video is of a jacket been out a while, I'm going to guess a year.

There are newer ones out including a newer longer jacket.

Now I'd say having owned both the "light" and the "normal" weight breathable material, the lighter one is LESS breathable, its less of a "wear all day" type as a result. I don't know why but my guess is the thinness requires a strength which requires a denser weave = smaller micro holes.

It works as a waterproof, but the fit is the problem.

I'd say the fact it is only really sold in UK accurately matches the conditions it suits which is cool and wet, if you're from Pacific NW then its comparable and so good to consider.

As to how it works, its really just a capillary force from the weave of the inner material which tends to push water from the inside to the outside. To keep that working it needs to be clean which is what the Nikwax Techwash does. The capillary force can be defeated by pressure such as from tightness, which is why its baggy, from a heavy backpack with narrow straps but if you a true BPL that's not much of an issue and by wind. The wind is defeated by the outer layer which is a windproof layer. It can "wet out" which lowers its breathability so it is treated by Nikwax TXDirect to encourage run-off.

Overall, because its two layers it is warmer, the inner layer has no / negligible windproofing so its extremely breathable, the outer layer is very breathable. The two combined is more breathable by an order of magnitude than any shell, so its good for wear-all-day-with-chance-of-rain or rain-all-day situations, if its cold enough just wear it and forget. As the waterproofness is based of fabric construction and cleanliness, it will not lose its waterproofness with slight damage or age, so they outlast other waterproofs by decades. Plenty of folks have perfectly ok working gear from 20+ years back.

The biggest drawback is its 2-layer insulation, it needs to be cold enough in balance with your output and high-energy people will find it too warm til below freezing which is obviously then not encounter water, so its more of a bimbling or just-above-freezing type context which is a very common temperature in UK.

I have Cascada for walking low-speed winter coat (e.g. into town) I got used, I got Quito for more biking and faster hiking, and a Summit hoodie + Fuera Ascent for more hiking from a car type as its just more flexible. I tend to use the Quito the most.

The traditional biggest complaint, after too-warm, is its bagginess, but the fabric needs bagginess to maximise waterproofness and you can make use of it like baggy sleeves to roll them up easier. Next the sleeves often too short, a little dumb if you're in mountains and raising hands above head, but its vast breathability and insulation means it will self-forgiving rain getting in the sleeve, you'll just evaporate and breathe it out.

You'll not get a discount at their London store and I'm not sure if they'll sell to you minus the 20% UK Salestax, more typically you get home and get the garments posted to you with a discount from somewhere else. Or you can just pay full price and walk out with it.

The pants are great, the Cascada pants, again just wear when its cold and regardless of rain you're dry and warm.

The overlayer Torres are performance-wise normal stuff but its good value for the build quality, I wear the Torres gilet a lot to boost anything I'm wearing.

Avoid their baselayers, worse of any make I've tried. Cambia is horrid.

Their fleecy reversibles are comfortable next-to-skin type if you like the look of them they're ok. I like the Explorer, I got a broken shoulder recent and an older damaged shoulder and I'm using the chest pocket to act as a sling.

Most people who buy Paramo find the comfort and convenience good and buy more and more, it has a name "Paramoholics" and its fans are widely known to be evangelical fans and so the P***** use to not provoke it being mentioned.

Be absolutely sure on fit before you buy! Notorious for sleeve length and torso length too-short

The London Paramo store has a tiny front entrance you have to be stood very close to see it. I was last in there 2 years ago, having queued for hours in USA embassy to hand $ over so I can stay in U.S.of.A. Land of the free for a fee!

I'd suggest if fit works get 2 jackets, one for high-energy one for low energy. You'll spend probably $600 equiv but be good for decades.

Forgot to add, Paramo is good for dunking situations, people falling rivers, its warmth, pump liner and breatability people been dry in not too long after a soaking. That is where my 1st Paramo spend came from I'd been biking against rain for an hour, I was soaked and the soaking was just getting me the shivers, I popped into a passing store, having never heard of Paramo. Shop so sure it would be good said full refund if I didn't like, I then biked for another hour in heavy wind and I was bone dry. The garment had not only kept rain out, had dried a cotton t-shirt under. Magical.

Paramoholic!

Perhaps of more interest to BPL, they are making a line where the liner and the windshell are separate, the Bora windproofs and fleece.

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXFLEECEHOODIEBORAMENS

Being able to use a windshirt as rain shell ends the debate about whether to bring rain- or wind-shells or both.

It should also allow BPLers to replace the fairly heavy (6.9oz) Paramo windproof with a lighter one, say Montbell Tachyon, or Pata Houdini.

This certainly doesn't put Paramo in to SUL territory, but it might make the weight gain small enough to make it a worthwhile trade-off for the extra performance.

For example, a cool weather trip rainy, windy weather;

MB UL Thermawrap jacket 8.4 oz
Marmot Essence rainjacket 6.4oz
total 14.8oz.
This system is warmer, and after a day of rain the insulation will be dryer in camp, but probably dry less quickly in case of continued humidity during the evening.

MB Tachyon windshirt 2.3oz
Paramo Bora Hoody 14.3 oz
total 16.6 oz.
This offers the ability to wear just a wind-shell in mild but breezy weather as well as being far more breathable when in waterproof mode. It also offers mid level insulation for walking in cold weather, when the Thermawrap would be to sweaty under a rain jacket while hiking.

I have a Cioch made pump liner which i combine with a Patagonia Houdini. Haven't done much testing with it yet since I received the pump liner in the mid spring and i live in VA, US. But when it starts to cool down again, i very much plan to test it extensively. First around home, then out in the woods.

Anyways, the pump liner weighs 8.4 oz, i believe, and the Houdini is a little over 4 oz. So for about 12.5 oz, i have a system that can be used most of the year even here (though it would be much better in MA where i've lived the majority of my life). My Stoic Vaporshell weighs more than that.

I expect it to be at least a bit cooler than than a lot of the Paramo jackets, except that it lacks pit zips.

I'm wondering what would be the best baselayer to combine with it, especially when it's not particularly cool out? Probably something as cool as possible. Maybe simply nylon fishnet type fabric? I've heard that it's best to use some kind of baselayer underneath. Would nylon mesh/fishnet be sufficient to avoid whatever it is that one should avoid?

Sounds like i should use an X-Large with it then…

Thanks for the info Nigel, but i'm still curious specifically about nylon fishnet. Have you tried that yourself? Falls under some of your recommendations of doesn't hold water, etc. One problem i could see with nylon fishnet is that it won't "filter" your sweat all like a thicker or more absorbing fabric would, so i suppose the pump liner would get dirtier faster and the DWR coating degrade faster?

Hi Nigel,

Its large gauge, spacey nylon, merino, or polypropylene mesh–sort of like a top equivalent of women's nylon stockings. Its been recommended on here multiple times because it doesn't retain any moisture, can be lightish weight, doesn't smell because the spaces between fibers are too open so gunk can't accumulate. Yet if still adds a little warmth by putting a little air space between your skin and the next thermal layer. Sounds like it might be very good to try with a Paramo type system, except it might degrade the DWR coating on the pump liner faster.

You're probably right Nigel. My reasoning was that the oils, salts, and acids from your skin and sweat would more directly interact with the pump liner. Not being a chemist, i have no idea how these would react with a Nikwax type coating but i'm sure it wouldn't be good for it. It just might be you would have to clean it more often or more thoroughly.

P.s. my earlier description of fishnet was a bit off. Neither fine nor light was really a description i should have used. Here is a BPL article on it.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/fishnet_base_layers.html#.UjuxhlWzKpg