Zerogram Zero1: Thoughts?

[Jonathon Self]

So, I posted about this in this thread a few weeks ago: http://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/92351/

Here’s a link to the tent: http://www.zerogramgear.com/#!store/cm7yd/!/ZERO-1-tent/p/56101821/category=14429337

According to their specs, “the fly, peg 6, tent bags, pockets for peg” weigh 630g, or 1.4lb, or 22.22oz.

The thread didn’t seem to get much traction (I’m assuming because the thread title isn’t as relevant to the shelter), so I thought I’d post a new, more focused thread.

I have been considered getting one of these for a bit, but I wanted to get before others input before I took the plunge. On paper, it seems pretty awesome to me. It’s not very long, but neither am I. It reminds me of a single walled Trekker Stealth 1. The only thing waivering in my mind was that for the price, I could go TT Protrail, but the Massdrop price almost solidifies wanting to try one out.

Anyway, thoughts?

Edit: Ugh. Typos.

[Jenny A]

I googled the company trying to find info, and this scam alert came up:

http://www.scamadviser.com/check-website/zerogramgear.com

It would make me nervous to purchase from them.

[Richie S]

They seem to be a Korea manufacturer launching in the US.

Here’s a review of a tent on another site.

https://gearjunkie.com/zerogram-launch-pct-tent-review

 

Massdrop would presumably stand behind any purchase.

 

 

[Michael Sirofchuck]

The “scam” alert seems to be based solely on the fact that they are from South Korea.  The Massdrop link has comments and videos concerning the company and their products that may be more helpful.

[Thomas Willard]

I like the entry access and storage vestibule set-up but it’s simply too small for my body.  I asked them on their FB page if they could make a larger size in dyneema and got the standard “we’re looking into it”.

[Kevin Babione]

I looked at the MassDrop posting and like the look of the tent but there were a couple of things that jumped out at me:

• While it claims to have “two entrances,” one of your trekking poles is set in the center of the entrance to the vestibule.  Since it’s a solo tent there can’t be enough room between the pole and the side of the tent to really call it an entrance – it’s really just a way to reach your vestibule from within the tent.  The entrance on the side will let in a bunch of water if you have to climb into the tent in a downpour.
• It looks like the second pole is used to prop up the foot of the tent.  I use GG LT4’s that don’t shrink down that far – I’m guessing I’d need to buy either a dedicated foot pole or find a stick that I could use at the campsite.
• With a dedicated foot pole I wonder if you could use your two trekking poles to support the front entrance in an inverted “V” shape – effectively eliminating my concern in the first bullet above (perhaps using a rubber band to hold the handles together)..
• The photos do not show a very taut pitch…I wonder if it’s possible to get it set up so that it won’t flap in the mildest of breezes.

For the price and weight it seems to be a good value, but I think I’d be inclined to spend $215 and get the 24-ounce Lunar Solo from SMD.

[Jonathon Self]

I believe they just launched in the US earlier this month or the end of December. They haven’t been around for long in North America. And I agree with the scam website interpretation. It appears to be based solely on the fact that the company is based out of Korea.

The tiny dimensions probably limit the tent to we shorter people, as @tomw stated. But if the company does well in North America, I’m sure they’ll consider larger versions because a lot of us are, well, larger.

[Jonathon Self]

@kbabione, check out these two videos. One is from their official youtube page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbKelSb-Too

The pitch in the Massdrop is pretty bad.

Edit: I’ve also considered the Lunar Solo, but the 24oz weight is without the six stakes. So it’s more like 26oz. Does that 3.78oz matter? Eh, I don’t know. It probably doesn’t matter to most, but it’s good that you mention it for the sake of comparison.

[Stephen M]

Nm

[Kevin Babione]

Thanks for the video – It certainly showed a better pitch on the tent.  It does reinforce my belief that the front end entrance is really just access to the vestibule from within the tent and is not truly a way into the tent.  For me the reason for a vestibule is that it allows me to enter the tent during a downpour without rain directly entering the tent (in addition to a place to put my pack).  Sure – I’ll be bringing in water on me, but that’s what my small towel is for and why I keep my pad & quilt near the foot end of the tent until I’m dried off and ready to lay down.  That side entrance is, in my opinion, a design flaw that would keep me from buying the tent.

I also have the issue that I don’t think that my trekking pole will shrink enough to be the support at the foot end of the tent.  I didn’t see any measurements to confirm that, but it’s a 2-section pole and can only shrink so much.  He uses a 3-section pole in the video.  I do like that they use the handle of the pole to support the tent rather than the tip going into a grommet (like SMD does).  I’ve had little critters chewing on my trekking pole handles before and it’s nice that they’re not in contact with the ground with the Zero1.

[Jonathon Self]

I prefer the pole handle up organization myself, too. The tip is already dirty, so why not have it be groundside? Seems natural, to me.

Your points about the vestibule certainly are good ones. I’ll probably go ahead and try to nab one from the Massdrop. I’m hoping I can squeeze into the vestibule entrance if needs be in a downpour, but I’m a pretty slender guy. I really don’t think it’d be doable with someone larger.

If I do end up getting one I’ll post my thoughts once it comes in.

[Bob Shuff]

I hear what you guys are saying about the vestibule, but I find most vestibules lacking entirely for downpour protection.  On a tent this small (even a protrail or almost any 1P tent) the vestibule slopes down from the top for obvious weather protection reasons.  You can sit down soaking wet, and zip the vestibule closed and take off your wet gear before climbing into the tent.  I’m not sure the protrail or most other tents could be any better or worse.  There are tents with outside rooms, but that’s not what we are talking about here for <2lb.

I actually like the side door for when it’s not raining.  I think this is the Zero1’s advantage over the protrail.  The Protrail, however seems to beat it in ventilation.

I started looking at the Protrail because Henry at Tarptent told me that was the tent if I have fixed-length poles – like my superlight BD carbon poles at 120cm.  I guess the side entry tents don’t do as well with poles that long.  I’m sure you can angle it in either case, but maybe the side entry ones would be less stable angled?

With the fixed length poles I’m also looking for some way to prop up the foot end.  You can use a cord to the top of the pole, but it’s not as stable.  A short post is probably worth the weight.

I see Massdrop met their goal, so the price is $159 + shipping.  I’m worried about the ventilation, but like the price, weight and side door.  Where do you guys fall on these tradeoffs?  I’d be using this mostly for desert trips and maybe for Philmont if we can get off the waiting list.  Otherwise I like my hammock better.

-Slbear

[James Marco]

I will echo Kevin’s dislikes.

1. The vestibule area needs two light poles to allow it to be used as an entrance. Otherwise there is just not enough room. It is only about 3’6 wide (43 in, actual.) It is half that around the floor area and half again at 2′ up from the floor. You really cannot use this as an entrance…a rather poor design.
2. The vestibule area isn’t really usable for much beyond gear storage. It gets real small for any cooking, but, it might be possible. Without end-to-end ventilation, this might prove to be impossible. It really isn’t large enough inside, so condensation will likely be an ongoing issue, especially if you cook in the vestibule.
3. The size is less than 7 ft. I am 5’9 and am comfortable at 7′ but many are taller…too short. The total size, not counting the vestibule, is 19 -1/4ft.
4. The coated polyester fabric is a cheap alternative to silnylon. Heavier and really not as good.
5. It is 24oz NOT including stakes, which means it is actually 26oz counting your stakes, you need at least 6 stakes.
6. The clinker that makes it a poor choice for me, is the side entrance open to the weather. It opens by zipper a relatively long ways very near the ground, possibly subject to leaks. It has no protection for getting into or out of the tent. And, being small, will be very difficult to pack up my gear in.

If you are a small person, then this tent will be OK if you can get by the front entrance.  An average sized person will have problems in bad weather and get wet just getting in and out. (When else do you need a tent?)

 

1. It is a bug proof tent, though

[CORP UZEN ZEROGRAM YJ CO]

Hi, BPLer

Plz check the follow clip on the Youtube, it was taken on PCT Days 2015 at Cascade Locks.
That was ZERO1 Cuben Edition, but specifications are exactly the same with Nylon edition.
The Cuben edtion of ZERO1 weighs only 14oz.

In the second clip, you can get more details of inner space of the front.

https://youtu.be/3QvFUZ7ReFs

https://youtu.be/BaZWbLAe17A

[Kevin Babione]

Fourteen ounces is indeed pretty nice, but the photo above underscores some of my earlier points:

• The vestibule is not really an entrance and doesn’t have room for much more than your pack
• It’s hard to get a taut pitch on the tent
• I’ve always been a big fan, probably because I’m a big guy, of entering my tent at the “foot” end of the tent (which I can do with my Lunar Duo and my Gatewood Cape).  I don’t like having to turn around in my tent.  I like to be able to crawl in, zip closed the “outer” door to immediately stop any rain, take off my boots and leave them it the vestibule, then stretch out.  This tent is clearly designed for you to put your head near the vestibule.

Even at a paltry fourteen ounces this tent wouldn’t work for me.

[Bob Moulder]

IMO, this tent is probably more accurately described as a big bivy. Might be able to cook in that front vestibule in a pinch if you’re good at cranking up a stove while leaning on one elbow. There’s a niche market for that.

But for very few more ounces a Zpacks ‘plex offers a lot more usable space… especially headroom!

Most all single-walls are going to get condensation. In this tent, condensation is really going to get on everything. With the ‘plexes, at least there is enough room to avoid touching most of it, and the majority of it can run down the walls and drip out. With this tent there’s nowhere for it to go except the floor of the tent.

 

[Jonathon Self]

I think the tent is great, but then again, I like bivies and I’m a very slender individual. Condensation? My sleeping bag has a schoeller nanosphere shell. I think it’d be fine. It seems to be remarkable tent for me, but I’m sure I’m an outlier. I wanted a small footprint, affordable, and enclosed shelter. There are some other options, certainly, but the price on the massdrop lured me in.

If I have any complaint thus far of how it looks on paper, it’s that you need a fairly compact trekking pole to pitch the rear. I nabbed some of the Fizan poles on Massdrop (because they are short enough), but I checked other options and there ain’t many. Only a few women’s poles appear to work. It’d be great if Zerogram offered some sort of extra pole option.

And the cuben/dyneema version looks nice, but I’m a little bit terrified of how expensive Zerogram would have to charge for it. There’s only been a handful of commercially released cuben/dyneema tents, right? If memory serves, they were all insanely expensive.

I guess I’ll find out when get mine in. I imagine it’ll be fine, but then again, I don’t live in rain forest-level humidity either.

[Bob Moulder]

Jonathon, PM me and let me know what size pole you need for the end and I will send you a custom-sized carbon fiber pole for postage only. I have some CF tubes left over from another project that should work perfectly. A pole that size should weigh less than 1 oz.

[Danny Milks]

Hey All – My office is in downtown SF and I live in Walnut Creek, so PM me if you’re interested in checking out the Zero1 in person. I can meet you in either locations or on BART during my commute. In fact, consider this a standing offer for any product we have on Massdrop when I have a sample (which is probably 90% of our drops). I could organize the most killer sample sale ever – any ideas on where/when/how?

Also, I was the one who set up the Zero1 for the Massdrop photo shoot. I was pretty hasty with setting it up, and had the disadvantage of wet ground in a public park, so our timing and options were limited. I am a bit embarrassed by it actually.

[I am the Ultralight Buyer for Massdrop]

 

[Kevin Babione]

I love these forums – where else would you have someone like Bob offering to make you a custom-length tent pole for the cost of postage only?  Bob – my high opinion of you just, if it’s possible, went up.

Jonathon – I think describing this tent as a spacious bivy is probably perfect and, when I accept that paradigm, helps the Zero1 make more sense to me.  As soon as I don’t think of it as a tent I realize it’s a great product for someone else.  We look forward to your review of it and please do take Bob up on his offer – I know him and I’m sure he’s happy to do it.

Danny – Thanks for confessing to the photo in the Massdrop posting.  It helps!  I’ve always assumed that the Massdrop photos were supplied by the manufacturer and was thus surprised that they’d publish something less than perfect.  Your explanation makes a lot of sense – I understand setting up a piece of gear for the first (and probably only) time and how it may not be just right.  An Ultralight Massdrop Sample Sale would be great, but it would be a management nightmare.  While I know there are some things I’d like to try, I’d almost rather see you make generous donations to people on this site who, for example, have their packs stolen or destroyed and don’t have the $$$ to replace the gear.

[Jonathon Self]

Bob – Thanks a bunch! I’ve sent you a PM.

Kevin – I’ll definitely post my thoughts once I given it a few runs. Getting one this early in the year should afford plenty of opportunities to try it out before it gets unbearable outside.

[Bob Moulder]

Thanks, Kevin! :^)

Actually, no problem at all. I’ve got quite a few bits left over from my myog trekking poles and was wondering what the heck I was going to do with all those pieces. Jonathon gave me a length of 65cm for the pole, and my bits are perfect for making 2-piece poles, though it weighed a bit more at 1.6oz. Better as a 2-piece, however, because 65cm is about 26 inches, so a bit unwieldy for packing.

I’m looking forward to Jonathon’s field reports about this shelter.

[Jonathon Self]

It’ll actually save me some anxiety in case I ever need to buy a new set of trekking poles, and I’ll probably carry it either way in case something happens to one of my poles.

You’ve done me a real favor!

[Jonathon Self]

So, I never got around to posting pictures. Whoops!

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8WBZViqde7ca01Ya2dCU0k4aFE&usp=sharing

I’ve noticed that the few impressions that have been posted online about this shelter couldn’t consistently get a taut pitch. I admit, it’s not the easiest shelter to pitch tautly. However, it can be done, sort of. :)

Just for quick reference, the picture of my feet is demonstrating a distance that I feel is rather centered in the tent. I am 6ft tall. I can lay on my stomach in the tent, feet stretched out, and not touch the opposite end, although I’m sure some brushing of sleeping bag/quilt against the foot-end would occur over the course of the night. It’s probably unavoidable at my height.

[Bob Moulder]

That actually looks pretty good!

Moisture is not nearly as much a concern with a synthetic quilt such as EE Prodigy.

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