Zero-Low Heel Drop High Route Footwear

[Jacob]

I am planning some off trail passes on a 7 night, 50 mile trip in the southern high Sierras this July. We are expecting to ascend and descend granite scree slopes and talus fields.

Does anyone have recommendations on what to get or avoid based on their experience for zero-low heel drop footwear?

Do you wear tighter shoes (especially tighter in the toes) to help with boulder hopping?

Do you wear mids to protect/cushion your ankle bone from loose rocks?

Do you use goretex lined shoes/boots for crossing snow fields and avoiding dampness at colder temperatures at altitude, in July? I’m expecting soaking wet shoes and socks after an afternoon thunderstorm at 4:30pm in 45f temps at 10000ft. Monthly average temps, +/- 3 max historical std deviations, altitude adjusted to 10000ft assuming 3.5f/1000ft, from the nearest weather station at Lodgepole gives ballpark temps of 23f to 74f for our trip. I know what Skurka recommended; after looking up the temps/rain fall and under the impression that late afternoon passing thunderstorms are common I’m sincerely asking this forum.

More background on my footwear situation:

The more experienced members of my group pointed out that my Altra King Mt 2s have a weak flexible toe guard, no lateral instep rand, a weak velcro strap for a heel guard, no ankle coverage, and no waterproofing; After watching some videos of the SHR on youtube I share their concerns that the King Mt 2s will get shredded descending loose scree. Not to mention the open sole which will let granite dust into the shoe; it has handled beach sand (larger particle size?) and dusty trails ok, but I have to imagine literal sand paper dust will be bad (granite is a 7/10 on the mohs hardness scale).

Skurka published this article and list: https://andrewskurka.com/recommended-footwear-for-high-routes-alaska-and-early-season-conditions/

Ryan Jordan also points out the La Sportiva Akrya in this article https://backpackinglight.com/principles-buying-minimalist-footwear-for-backpacking/

Here are some BPL threads; https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/footwear-for-offtrail-shr/ and https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/28821

None of these options listed or discussed are zero or even low drop. All at least 6mm or greater.

I spent a few hours annoying the sales people at REI yesterday evening; I had my right foot in my king mt 2 and my left foot trying other shoes. In my hiking socks on the brannock I measured just over and US8.5 in length and just over a D in width for both feet. If you measure a tracing of my foot I’m about 10″ long and 3 7/8″ wide.

The bushido IIs are more like soccer cleats than trail runners, the instep and arch is a single piece of hard (tap it and it goes ‘click clack’) plastic. Like an integrated outsole+shank providing tons of protection from rock. You could balance on the arch of your foot on the point of a rock. A true hallux valgus toe box that pinches the toes together, but you have amazing dexterity with the forefront of the sole. I imagine people who play field sports in cleats love these… But nothing like any trail runner I’ve checked out before; super protective and tight. I could barely don and doff them, like cleats.

The ultra raptors, in my opinion, are a low cut boots not trail runners. They have a full wrap around rand made of this stiff but flexible rubber(?) material with a weird printed tpu-esque coating. It seems super durable and from others’ experience it apparently is. It has a similar stack height, drop, sole flexibility, upper stiffness, and maybe even more protection than the leather hiking boots on the shelf (I handled the Lowa renegrade for a side by side comparison). Definitely feel far off the ground compared to the altras. Even in wide it is tight; maybe good for the heel but too much for my toes.

The salomon X Ultra 3s are similar in sole characteristics and upper stiffness to the ultra raptors but the upper *seems* less durable. Salomon also markets these as hikers not runners, and that description fits well I think. The sole doesn’t seem as sticky as the la sportiva. The REI I went to had no salomons of any model in wide, so I couldn’t try it, but the regular felt tight in the toes compared to the altras. The heel was tight, but I think in a snug way that was good. I really liked how I didn’t really feel much higher off the ground than the altras. I could almost stand comfortably with the different shoes on either feet.

I don’t know yet if others have had success with Merrel Moabs in granite scree and talus, but they seem almost as durable as the salomons. Not a lot of durable quick-dry options in mids. The bumper running the length of the lateral side of the shoe seems nice, but its skinny and its under the suede. I know suede has a good reputation in rock climbing shoes, but I don’t know how it compares to the plastics and rubbers being used in the salomons and la sportivas vs the scree I will be sinking into. Its not an open mesh as it seems to be in the pictures, there is a black fabric material in the openings between the brown material; I believe it could keep dust out. The wide toes box felt similar to the altras, but my measured size was too long in the moab 2 and they didn’t have the next size down for me to try. Im hoping the right length will allow me to get my heel locked in and stop my foot from sliding forward but not feel tighter in the toes. Maybe it is just too wide in the heel. I was able to try a different model merrell in a regular width, but the length was truer to size so I don’t know if it was a good comparison; that merrel felt very similar to the salomons. Moab 2 felt over all taller than the salomon but closer to the ground the ultra raptor, as the specs suggest. Seems like the hardest, least sticky sole.

All of these felt like high heels compared to the altras. Taking the insole out helps a lot with the merrels and salomons, which surprised me because the insoles seem minimal and both shoes have an 11mm drop vs the ultra raptors around 9mm. Still similarly comfortable/cushioned compared to the altras even without insoles. standing and walking around the heel drop became less and less noticeable, even with a 0 drop shoe on the other foot. They didn’t have the lone peak hiker in my size, but I was able to handle it; it doesn’t even seem like an outdoor shoe compared to the others or my king mt 2s. I have no confidence in the thin synthetic suede and abundance of stitching; they should have used way more of the hard plastic they have around the heel. The toe bumper is small and the toe guard thin and flexible. Probably fine for all normal walking/hiking, I’m just focusing on those sharp loose granite scree slopes.

Should I compromise on heel drop? Should I consider the tighter toe boxes for my lower mileage off trail high route? Should I be considering goretex or sticking to quick dry?

[H W]

I tried zero drop and all I got was recurring calf injuries but it could be just me. I ended up with Topo Athletico Ultraventure shoes with a 5mm drop (I think) and was good. Also for my feet I appreciate the wide toe box and snug heel. Hiked above tree line in CO and Wind River loop last summer with lots movement over talus and scree fields. They held up and should be ready for another go around in July and August. It’s a tough call and you really won’t know you made the right decision until you’re deep into your hike. Then it will be too late if you did wrong. Good luck.

[Robert Spencer]

I don’t mean to oversimplify the answer to your question, but my suggestion is to go with a basic trail runner or mid that fits your foot. There is no substitute for trying on many pairs until you find the shoe which seems to be made for your foot.  All options that you mention will do the job, but the one that fits (ie holds the heel in place and gives room for toes to wiggle) is best.

My summer plans are similar to your trip and I just couldn’t go with the Altras even though I wanted to like them. Just felt too wispy for my needs. I ended up with the Merrell Nova 2. Sure, they aren’t the most durable, but they seem comfortable, and paired with a simple gaiter I am confident they will serve me well on and off the trail. Good luck.

[Lowell k]

I have an identical story to HW. The zero drops caused too much calf strain, even with a slow break in to see if I could get my calves in shape. I also landed on Topo Ultraventures and they did well on a 30 mile trrip out of Hetch Hetchy last weekend. Toe box is wide, my forefoot doesn’t swash around like it does in the Altra Lone Peak, the heel was very snug and secure, handled sharp inclines and declines on the granite surfaces very well, and they dried out quickly.

[Jacob]

Thanks for the suggestions! I will look more closely at the Topos; I wrote them off as not having strong enough uppers. The Novas were off my radar too, thanks!

No heel drop means no knee pain for me. I have never had an issue with calf soreness or ankle tightness or anything other really than my knees and pads on the bottoms of my feet aching; 0 heel drop seems to prevent the former. I have hiked with 30lbs on trails with the zero drop king mt 2s, but not for extended trips or over technical off trail terrain. Based on my current experience I’m confident the lower the drop the happier I will be.

 

[Geoff Caplan]

I’m a great fan of the Inov8 TerraUltra G 270.

https://www.inov-8.com/terraultra-g-270-mens

• Zero drop with low stack height (for a well protected shoe)
• Outstandingly grippy and durable general-purpose sole using innovative graphene technology developed at the National Graphene Center at Manchester University
• Midsole with just the right balance between protection and ground-feel
• Durable upper with a strong toe-guard and an overlay rand on most of the typical wear-points
• Fast draining, considering it has a rand
• Good mid-foot fit – MUCH better than my old LonePeaks on side-slopes, steep descents etc
• Aimed at UltraRunners, so the cut and lacing is designed to adjust to accommodate swelling feet – should fit a wide range of foot types
• Reassuringly stable on rough ground.

I live in the Lake District and have had them out on rough trails and off-piste walks. Still relatively early days – maybe 150 miles on them – but they are looking virtually new. Long-term reviews suggest that they last well – Inov8 set themselves the challenge of designing a 1000 mile shoe.

Unambiguously the best zero-drop shoe I’ve ever used, and well worth a try despite the premium price.

[Steve Thompson]

Jacob, I wear Brooks Cascadia.  These are not zero drop, but have proven on task for my SHR and SoSHR treks…I’ve completed the sections between Tuolumne Meadow and Wallace Lake.  While they get beat up, I’ve not had an upper blowout, the lugs and sole rubber have good traction, and the rock plate saves my feet.

[Andrew Marshall]

I hard second G270. Fantastic zero-drop shoe. I’ve tested and used a LOT of zero drop and they are my favorite.

[Luke Schmidt]

Have you considered Scarpa approach shoes? I went from all zero drop to the Scarpas and was fine. I did size up a half size. And I took the laces out and redid them to skip the bottom lace. That gave more toe room.

I have a similar  issue. I love Altras and zero drop but it doesn’t always work in Alaska. For hunting season and slushy shoulder season I moved to light Salomon boots. I forget the model. Again I sized up. Would I choose them for a thru hike? No. Would I choose them for rough off trail stuff? Sometimes yes. On flat ground I notice the raised heel more. Off trail nothing is flat so I don’t seem to be bothered.

A flexible shoe is great, until your foot is being pinched between rocks or alders. In special situations a stiff shoe allows your foot to stay in a more “natural ” position instead of getting twisted, pinched and beat up.

For rocks and scree I’d err on the side off to much protection (within reason, I’m not suggesting mountaineering boots).

When Ben and I hike Mt Edizza in BC I had softer approach shoes. Definitely better then Altras for that trip. Ben carried very stiff Arc’terx approach shoes. He’s always faster then me but I really fell behind on boulder fields. He was cruising while my feet were getting best up.

 

[Jacob]

I didn’t look closely at inov8 after I saw they don’t make a quick drying mid. How is the grip with the graphene sole? Any rubber advertised as durable I assume is hard and not sticky.

I hadn’t looked at brooks before either, the Cascadias look like a great alternative to ultra raptors or x ultras.

The scarpa rapid seems great too. I’ve never had the chance to try on scarpas.

For everyone recommending low cut shoes; Are you saying that in your experience getting your ankles banged up on loose scree is no big deal or are you saying your ankles don’t get banged up at all?

 

[J-L]

The Terraultra G-270 could be a good option if it fits. I’ve liked using my Topo Runventure 3 shoes for off-trail, however, the midsole flattens out pretty quickly. The rest of the shoe will hold up to at least 400 miles, but the midsole is mostly dead by 150-200 miles.

Some other ideas:

Salomon X Alpine Pro: fits wide for a Salomon shoe

This guy used the King MT-2 on his trip, so it’s possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMvnoaATyA4

He gives some opinions on shoes at the end of this video. Didn’t seem to be a fan of either of the shoes he used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU05_i3rjiE

Dave Chenault likes his Astral TR1 Merge boots: https://bedrockandparadox.com/2020/11/20/my-favorite-shoes/

I’ve tried a couple Scarpas, but even their widest fitting shoe (the Spin Ultra) felt Salomon/La-Sportiva narrow.

[Geoff Caplan]

Jacob

 Any rubber advertised as durable I assume is hard and not sticky.

This is the exciting thing about this shoe. They worked with the National Graphene Centre at Manchester university to develop the sole compound. This is the department that won a Nobel for the discovery of graphene, and it’s one of the first commercial products to come out of their research.

The brief was to develop a compound that was both durable *and* grippy.

On the first iteration, the feedback was that they got the balance wrong. The sole easily lasted 1000 miles but the grip was average. In this second iteration they have emphasised the grip more – it’s at least as good as my old VJ Sport XTRMs with a butyl sole advertised as “the best grip on the planet”.

And yet after well over 100 miles on gnarly trails, there is pretty much no visible wear – even though the cleats have a slight roughened texture moulded onto the bottom – it’s amazing that it’s still there.

As for ankle protection, I’m very aware of the risks because I’ve had ankle surgery and a bang on the fibula is eye-watering. I’ve not found it an issue in hundreds of days in the UK and the Western Alps – the occasional mishap but not enough to put me off. If I ever had a problem I’d just strap on some padding with kinesiology tape till I was through the awkward passage. If you had a regular issue why not fix some padding to your ankle gaiters? If you restrict yourself to a zero-drop mid, you’re going to have a very narrow choice…

[Jacob]

John, thanks for posting the links! The Astral tr1 merge seems like the unicorn I am looking for! I hope the shank provides torsion rigidity and of course that they fit. Dave Chenault’s review is very helpful; I appreciate him referencing kicking steps vs smearing on loose talus. Its been hard for me to find others’ descriptions of how best to go about it. I don’t know if I have the experience to really know what he means by ‘using weaknesses and variations for purchase.’ I’m excited to get out on some more easily accessible scree slopes with the tr1 merges before my bigger trip.

I saw that SHR video but missed Dan Stenziano’s follow up. I’m surprised to hear him say he thinks his feet are platypus wide considering he was willing to hike in bushidos and think the altras feel sloppy. I can barely velcro the midfoot strap on the king mt 2s; hard to believe someone could tighten that strap and still think the shoe feels sloppy… If that was his only complaint then it seems the king mts could do well.

His video clips at 14:01 and 23:16 minutes show unstable talus in the southern sierras and are actually some of the pieces of beta encouraging me to use mids. The experienced members of my group are ‘traditional’ backpackers who believe lightweight choices are reckless; especially concerning footwear after they had to end a similar off trail sierra trip early and help carry the last lightweight backpacker they invited with them after he broke an ankle in ‘sneakers’ on loose talus. Since they are more experienced than me I feel compelled to follow their advice/insistence.

Geoff is right however; there is a very poor selection of zero rise mids. Even the astrals are technically 1mm (I doubt I will feel it) but still. The other zero drop mids I have found are ‘barefoot’ footwear (vivobarefoot, xeros, lems) offering completely flexible soles with no torsional support and sparse uppers compared to the recommended brands uppers’ with solid rubber rands. Even with heel drop, most mids in general are not quick drying. The astrals seems like a rare find.

 

Geoff, as sticky as butyl but more durable seems too good to be true! With all the positive feedback I definitely want to try the terraultra g270s now. It may be wise to save my king mts only for wet hikes, it doesn’t look like altra is making them anymore…

I consider low heel drop to be 4mm and under, so those VJ Sport XTRMs seem awesome too!

If it weren’t for the influence I’m getting from my hiking partners I would definitely be trying these low cut options first.

[Geoff Caplan]

My experience of the XTRMs wasn’t so good. I found them pretty unforgiving on the feet so mainly used them for shorter hikes – especially on nasty ground in wet weather, where the grip really was very reassuring.

But the upper of one split right along the connection with the sole well before its time. I do walk on some pretty rough ground, but that’s what it’s supposed to be for. The worst footwear failure I’ve had in 50 years in the hills. Luckily I carry a bit of gaffer tape for just that kind of issue so I got down OK…

So it wasn’t a reliable shoe for me, though it has been for others.

The TerraUltra is a MUCH more sophisticated and comfortable shoe.  At least on my feet – I know that footwear is very personal. The VJ shoe is pretty basic and old school in comparison and I couldn’t recommend it. In the UK it’s popular with the Mudder crowd, but you don’t see it often in the hills. I bought it for the grip when I was rehabbing after an ankle injury.

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