WM Ultralight vs FF Hummingbird UL

I’ve owned a few WM bags, and currently have a Versalite and Superlite. I’ve “tried” to like FF, but I just don’t find them to be quite as “lofty” (highly technical appraisal) side by side as WM. I think FF are very nice, I just don’t think they’re quite up to the level of WM for essentially the same money.

Of the 6 WM bags I’ve owned, I’ve had overfill in every one (I’ve bought all of them from Hermits Hut which gives overfill as a free option). My wife’s Alpinlite also has overfill.

My .02

Thanks for that Brad. Would you consider the WM Ultralight good for 20 degrees, or is some overfill warranted? I do tend to run rather warm, but don’t want to miss the opportunity to do it the first time around.

I’ve always found WM’s temp ratings spot-on for my body. Yes, I’d say it’s a genuine 20* bag, especially with overfill.

One thing I failed to mention is the interior shoulder girth of the WM Ultralite is 1″ larger in diameter than the FF Hummingbird. That may not sound like a lot, but when you get that narrow, every inch really means something. I’ve had smaller shoulder girth’s on bags than the FF’s 58″ and anymore I find them too constricting. At my age and size (55 yo, 5’10, 160lbs) I find the 59″ of the WM to be on the smallest end of just right, and I’d not want it smaller.

Hope any of that helps.

Brad

I agree that the WM Ultralite 20F is rated appropriately. If wanting to push the limits I would personally go with the 2oz of overfill (as said above Hermit’s Hut offers this at no additional charge)…plus the extra down seems to keep down from shifting especially if you toss and turn or a side sleeper. As the Ultralite has a full length zipper it makes it easy to vent if too warm.

WM vs FF: Both manufacturers are at the top end of the down garment/bag spectrum and really feel it becomes a personal preference based on features. I tend to lean towards WM as I prefer the cut/shape and the zipper tape is wide which almost eliminates fabric getting caught in the zipper.

Good input so far. I have decided that I am still undecided with the 2.

Just a reference the Hummingbird has 14oz of 950 fill for 13,300ci fill whereas the Ultralite has 16oz of 850ci fill for 13,600ci so they should be close in that regard.

I think even at 6′ 170lbs the Hummingbird would be too narrow for me.

Thanks Brad,

I did the same math.  Seems like a total equal.  I am 5’8″ and 150.  I am ok with narrow.  How do you think the 950 fil will hold up long term? 5 years, 8 years, etc? No different than 850? Thanks

Over, a couple of quick addt’l thoughts…

One reason I like WM is everything they say is conservative. When they say 850 ci down, it’s likely more like 900. Other Co’s inflate their numbers, and judging by side by side comparisons, I can’t help but think FF inflates their no’s.

As to longevity. I got my first really good down bag in 1975 when I started backpacking in earnest. It was a North Face with 550 ci down, which was about all that was available then, primarily because of the Cold War (no access to East Europe) and a closed China. NF made the state of the art bags at that time (USA built), and relative to today’s dollars, were much more expensive. Those bags are still around and serviceable.

In 1982 I got a lighter bag with Goretex shell. It was a USA made Marmot “Ptarmigan”model, had a draft collar, narrow 56” cut, and the then unheard of 650 ci down fill. It was obscenely expensive but I had to have it. It served me well, and retained its loft until I made the switch to WM in 1992. I sold that original Marmot bag on ebay in the mid 2000’s, nearly 25 years after I bought it, for more than I paid for it. It was still a perfectly serviceable bag, and is undoubtedly still in use somewhere.

Said all that to say, the difference between today’s extravagantly lofty 850/950 ci down is conversational. And that’s assuming that the 850 ci  and 950 ci aren’t actually both 900 ci!

I doubt the longevity between quality 650 ci down and 950 is all that great!

Today’s bags are so superior in every way to the stuff we used in the 1970’s it’s remarkable. And bags like those from WM are less money in today’s dollars. That’s why I always have an inner smirk when someone complains about the cost of a quality bag like WM.

“the extra down seems to keep down from shifting especially if you toss and turn or a side sleeper”

I also wanted to point out Christopher’s excellent observation, and one I think is keen and true.

Thanks for the good input. Seems like it is really splitting hairs on this one. I’ve had and still have FF, and have had WM in the past. Seems fill weight / power and shell materials are the biggest differences. Appreciate the Brads comments!

My overfilled WM Meglite, formerly a 30 F. bag is now good to at least 20 F. I’ve slept comfortably in it at 15 F. with only long johns, a thin poly balaclava and heavy wool “sleeping socks”.

And that comfort level was with the hood open, not a “blowhole” situation with a tightened down hood.

“These are 2 strikingly similar bags that I am sure will both be high quality. I am looking to use these in the 30’s down to the teens occasionally.  I sleep warm and can double up on some extra layers as needed. Any comments on the differences of them? Any thoughts on going for overfill? Thanks!”

I have an Ultralite that sits around unused , primarily because I hike in that temperature range 99% of the time.  I get by just fine with a WM Summerlite with 2 oz of overfill. and extra layers.  Save yourself some bucks and get the same effect by beefing up a lighter bag and incorporating your clothing into your sleep system.  My 2 cents.