Winter Base Layer Advice Needed

[James Taylor]

I’m looking to buy an upper body base layer for multi-day backpacking in frigid temperatures (25F to -20F) in the winter. I’ve been having trouble finding one that matches what I’m looking for. Maybe because I’m being ridiculously specific? Details below

[James Taylor]

Features Wanted:
– Wool or mostly wool for next to skin feel
– Not too heavy fabric, I sweat a lot (maybe 200 g/m2)
– Close fitting for good drying (stretchy fabric helps here)
– Low profile, non-helmet compatible hood (I’ll wear this most of the time)
– Partial front zipper for venting on those warmer days as I’m hiking uphill
– Thumb loops because layering and gloves

My perfect garment would be something akin to my Patagonia Cap4 Hoody, but made from wool, which would have all of the above features. Unfortunately Cap4 is made of the most clammy-feeling polyester. I just can’t wear that thing against my skin. I assume all the other Capilene layers are similar in this regard.
I’m a fan of Smartwool’s microweight garments, but they’re really a little too light for frigid winter use at 150 g/m2, and they don’t have hoods or front zips.
I’ve tried combining the two, with the Smartwool against the skin under the Cap4, but that layer is just too warm above maybe 10F or so.
I know Patagonia makes (has made?) a lofted wool garment (Merino Air) that is similar, but it doesn’t have a front zipper and so would be difficult for me to vent.
It looks like the Ibex Hooded Indie would be perfect for me, but that seems to have been discontinued. Is there anything similar to it out there?

[Ken Larson]

James check these out as they all are wool:

Interval Long Sleeve Tee

Merino + 120 Long Sleeve Zip Tee

Merino + 160 Long Sleeve Zip Tee

Merino + 160 Hoody

//rab.equipment/us/

[Edward John M]

Use the UL layers you are already happy with and simply add another UL layer on top just a tad larger in fit. Yes Cap4 over 150GSM wool may be too warm although Cap4 over the Patagonia ultralight layer [ now called “Everyday” ] is good for me

Personally I love my Cap4 layers when it gets cold enough but personally 200GSM is far too thick and heavy for a base layer.

IBEX do not exist any longer; it seems they just went under.

If you really are a very heavy sweater then maybe Brynje mesh would be a better solution

https://www.brynje-shop.com/en/sportswear~c263/brynje-arctic-double-sweater-10401420-p21034

[Brad Rogers]

Rab Merino + 160 Hoody

[Terry Sparks]

Take a look at the Kora base layers, made from Yak wool, it’s pricy but warmer than merino wool and very comfortable.

[Jerry Adams]

Just for the sake of argument

You don’t need different base layers for different temperatures.  You need different mid layers and outer layers.

[Edward John M]

Situationally dependently yes Jerry you are correct. But when it is cold I do seem to switch from UL base layers to PowerstretchPro and vent more and when Yo-Yo skiing I do use the Cap4 layer because it deals with the stop start nature of Alpine skiing better and when it gets really cold [ which it doesn’t here] I’ll switch back to the UL Patagonia and add the R1 Ninja top.

Cold being below freezing and really cold below -25C

I guess I just like buying stuff and experimenting, but if only one layer in the wardrobe the lighter and thinner the better because for some reason mid-layers do seem to be cheaper to buy and much easier to ring the changes on

[James Taylor]

Ken and Brad – Thanks guys! That Rab Merino+ 160 looks very similar to what I’m looking for. A little thinner than what I had wanted, but you can’t have everything. Most importantly, I can find it for sale!

Edward – I wish I could wear my Cap4 like you, as a base layer. It’s so well built, isn’t it? It just feels like I’m swimming in my own sweat with it against my skin. I guess we’re all a little different.

Terry – I’ll keep my eye on Yak wool, I’d never heard of it before this. I wonder if it has the same durability issues as merino, or is there a possibility for improvement there?

Jerry and Edward – Yeah, theoretically I’d just change my insulating layer in the winter, but I really, really like a thin hood, chest pocket, and thumb loops on my winter base layer. I end up using them 24-7 in the winter, but they don’t really make much sense for me on a 3-season base layer. And like Edward, I like to vent more in the winter, hence the neck zipper. If I buy the Rab Merino+ 160 Hoody, that probably could be used year round. It’s not like the hood or the thumb loops would get in the way during summer.

[Bruce Tolley]

You need an Ibex Indie Hoodie but Ibex closed down in December.  Smartwool makes a hoody but it has no zip and no thumbholes. You could wear Smartwool 250 crew or zip T under  a Patagonia R1 hoodie.

Maybe check out Icebreaker?

 

[Brad Rogers]

I used the Rab Merino + 160 hoody on a 14 day trip this past summer and I didn’t take it off the entire trip – it was fantastic.

[Muddles]

I think what you’re looking for is the Mountain Equipment Coop Merino T2 Hoodie.

https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5043-959/Merino-T2-Zip-Hoodie

Minimalist hood. Front zip. 200 grams/metre weight. Currently on sale for $69. Canadian.

[Rick M]

Perhaps a hoody using the new Polartec Power Wool fabric? Unfortunately, seems not many available from the usual suspects but I did find this,

//jagged-edge-mountain-gear.myshopify.com/products/mens-power-wool-hoody.

and this from Peter Whittaker’s MtnLogic that reminds me of my Patagonia Sun Hoody,

https://www.mtnlogic.com/products/mens-solstice-hoody

There is another made by Teton Bros in Japan. You might be able to get via Amazon JP or Rakuten.

//www.teton-bros.com/jp/fw_products/baselayer/powerwool_lite_hoody.html

[Tipi Walter]

In my experience there is patagonia/capilene cold and there is Icebreaker merino 260/320 wt cold.

I have alot of experience with both winter layering systems.  A couple years ago I left the Icebreaker tops and returned to my old polypropylene tops—now the next generation capilene of patagonia.  Here’s what I discovered—

**  My next to skin baselayer on all my trips is a midweight silk long sleeve top—under my usual North Face Reaxion nylon T-shirt (excellent).  The silk is awesome and is against the skin no matter what is over it—capilene or merino.  I also like to sleep in the silk top if not damp from hiking.

 

** For midlayer warmth I sandwich a patagonia midweight capilene large top under an x-large thermal top hoody—This in effect becomes one layer and never separated.  The hoody has a neck zip with thumb loops.

**  This system is great when moving because the hood allows fine heat/sweat adjustment under load.  And yes, it dries faster if sweaty and is much lighter than my merino tops.

**  I don’t like capilene directly against the skin, btw.

ICEBREAKER—On my last January trip I ditched the capilene and returned to my sandwiched merino tops—Icebreaker large 260 wt zipneck under an x-large 320 wt zip neck.  The warmth upgrade is noticeably better than the capilene.  Well, it should be because it is significantly heavier.

Point is, when I’m heading out in deep cold I much prefer my Icebreaker tops both for in-camp and for backpacking.  I’m gonna reserve the Patagonia tops for spring and fall etc.

Oh and btw—all these tops are augmented with a merino balaclava and a turtle fur fleece toque.

[Muddles]

Perhaps a hoody using the new Polartec Power Wool fabric? Unfortunately, seems not many available from the usual suspects but I did find this,

This stuff looks great.

http://polartec.com/product/polartec-power-wool

Seems like Arc’teryx uses it in their “Satoro” line, though they give it their own trademarked name. 180 grams/metre looks like.

https://arcteryx.com/ca/en/shop/mens/satoro-ar-zip-neck-shirt-ls

Also, Underarmour (!?!) uses it as well, but not in a crewneck, or hoodie.

[Rob P]

I think this one checks some of your boxes:

https://www.nordicoutdoor.co.uk/aclima-mens-warmwool-hooded-sweater-with-zip.html

[Mike B]

That Aclima hooded sweater sounds like a great layer pc.

Although the <span class=”amconf-label”>Sudan/Frost/Blue Saphire</span> color combination is not my cup of tea the Jet Black would work.

[Iago Vazquez]

Dear James,

I also sweat more profusely than the average person. I never liked Powerdry. Never got good thermal regulation from it. I like wool and I like wool/polyester mixed garments. My favorite synthetics have a fuzzy sort of weave similar to wool (I apologize, I don’t know the proper term). Examples are some of the Helly Hansen tops (not all are weaved this way) or for inexpensive versions I like the Indera Polypropylene Performance Rib Knit Thermals. I’m 5’10”, and I find their standard layers a hair short, so I buy the tall versions. Easy to find on Amazon at about $15.

A while back I read this article here. //backpackinglight.com/fishnet_base_layers/  I used some of my “mesh” looking baselayers made for cycling or other high output activities with mixed performance. These layers seemed good for high output, but not so great for resting. In fact, I felt cold at times when resting wearing some of them. Based on this, I decided not to try the Brynje baselayers despite the fact that mine were much thinner than the Brynje.

However, after receiving more suggestions to try them this year, I finally purchased a synthetic mesh top last fall. Winter in the Boston area this year has been mild to say the least, so my experience at extreme temps has been limited, but so far very positive. Fantastic at high output activities, good thermal regulation transitioning to rest or significantly warmer temps, and I didn’t have the cold/chilling feeling I had with the previous mesh tops as long as the second layer was close fitting (Cap 2 & 3 worked great in this application). I may consider the purchase of the wool Brynje in the future, but at the moment I want to have more experience with the synthetic one before I take the expensive plunge.

One observation about the synthetic Brynje is that I purchased an L, my typical top size. Out of the box it seemed too tight/small. Too constricting. But I kept it on, and after one afternoon of use it had considerably stretched. After two or three uses, the shirt seeed to have reached its final stretched out shape, although it seems to shrink a hair when I hand wash it, but certainly not to the level it was out of the box.

 

[Edward John M]

The technical term you are looking for to describe those underwear tops from HH is “Flotte”

[Iago Vazquez]

Thank you, Edward!

[Marc Dalessio]

Rapha makes a deep winter base layer that matches much of your criteria. It’s a heavier wool on the front though as it’s for biking into wind. I get a lot of use out of mine, and I really like the scuba hood: https://www.rapha.cc/us/en_US/shop/deep-winter-base-layer/product/DBL01

Edit: I realised the arms have the heavier weight fabric, so it might be too much for you. They have a regular base layer that’s 200: https://www.rapha.cc/us/en_US/shop/winter-base-layer/product/SBL01

[Eric Blumensaadt]

James,

I’m not a fan of wool for base layering because wool absorbs and holds moisture. If you like it then by all means use it but from my experience it transports moisture much more slowly than synthetics even though it may feel dry.

I use Cabela’s polyester mid and polar weight base layer. I’ve used them for XC ski racing and patrolling, hunting and winter camping with great success. I long ago stopped using polypropylene fabrics due to their shrinkage problems and plastic feel.

Also I have quit using “Power Dry” grid backed base layers due to the fact that by the end of the day the grids make an irritating “grid” in my skin. I’ve had to wear them inside out to avoid that problem.

Unlike some I have never had a problem with polyester or polypropylene base layers developing a stink that could not be washed out. Body chemistry varies on this matter. Personally I dislike the smell of damp wool as another reason I choose synthetic base layers.

 

 

 

[BlackHatGuy]

If you want to step outside the normal box, check out Buffalo Systems clothing. I used one of their tops (well, a ripoff of one of their tops) when I backpacked in winter in Michigan’s UP (so cold the Lake Superior was frozen). It was the only top I wore until camp, with no baselayer or over-layer, when I put on a down jacket. Not only vents in the front, but all along the sides as well. Dries quicker than anything I’ve ever worn after sweating profusely (and I sweat profusely as soon as I start moving, regardless of temps).

It’s not light, but it’s incredibly effective, and my deep winter top of choice, without layers.

[Edward John M]

Another alternative if you were willing to forgo the attached hood would simply be a cheap cashmere jumper from Uniqlo, depending on style they can be a very skinny cut and they make a very warm underwear layer albeit a little short in the body, if you could find somebody who knits well having a custom garment knitted is an option, and if doing this you could choose your own super-blend of fibres. My personal choice would be 50/50 Ultra fine merino and cashmere as Yak etc is harder to find for the home knitter; compared to wool cashmere is hydrophobic

[Roger Caffin]

Never forget: natural fibres are fine while they are dry, but when they get wet they can be really really bad. A synthetic fleece can be dry enough to provide warmth in 5 minutes (assuming you wrung it out first), but a wool jumper can take hours to be of any use. Natural fibres are nice at home.

Cheers

 

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