Wind Shirts

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

OK, but then you talk about summer temps. And how high are those ? Here at least temps of higher then 60 °F/15 °C you get only in the period between may and september (and even in the middle of summer, I’ve experienced bitter cold periods (<10 °C)). And those are the measured values at a lower place then where I usually go hiking and where it is usually a few degrees colder.

[Justin Baker]

I get cold and overheat easily. I always try and maintain a high level of air permeability in my clothing when active so I don’t have to adjust layers as much. When I am active, even if I am not too warm, I find that I sweat a little. Air permeability is important so that sweat can evaporate and I don’t end up chilled when I stop for a break. A windshirt allows you to block most of the wind while still allowing a certain amount of air permeability.

A windshirt also provides a couple more functions that just blocking wind. By blocking wind, you are limiting air permeability which traps body heat. A windshirt over a fleece adds a surprising amount of warmth. If you are wearing a fleece and windshirt and you start to overheat, you can take off the windshirt to cool down. Or you can wear the windshirt by itself if its windy out. A windshirt, by limiting air permeability, slows evaporative cooling. If you are hiking uphill and sweating and you get to the top of a peak and you start to get chilled, its probably mostly from your sweat evaporating. Throw on a windshirt to slow down the evaporation and you will feel much warmer. If you are hiking in the rain for a while and get damp, when the rain stops you can take off your rain jacket and put on a windshirt which allows you to dry out at a managable rate that won’t chill you from super fast evaporation. I consider a windshirt an essential piece of clothing for moisture management in wet weather.

[Gary Dunckel]

I have another use for my wind shirt that no one else has mentioned. I like my camp fires, but I don’t like holes in my expensive puffy layers. My less expensive wind shirts help protect the good stuff from sparks (to a large degree). Also, I would be pretty grumpy if I snagged a tree branch while chasing firewood in a thick forest and tore a hole in my beloved BPL Cocoon hoody.  Wind shirts are somewhat expendable/disposable relative to a 850 FP down piece (or that impossible-to-replace Cocoon).

When snowshoeing on a clear but breezy day, a wind shirt greatly increases the efficiency of fleece or other synthetic insulation layers. They also breathe much better than GTX or eVent shells. MY WP/B piece only comes out if it starts to snow, or if I need more warmth while on lunch break.

[James holden]

OK, but then you talk about summer temps. And how high are those ? Here at least temps of higher then 60 °F/15 °C you get only in the period between may and september (and even in the middle of summer, I’ve experienced bitter cold periods (<10 °C)). And those are the measured values at a lower place then where I usually go hiking and where it is usually a few degrees colder.

unless its VERY windy i dont use a windshirt above 5C … and if im active, probably quite a bit lower

at 0C or less a windshirt and a light long sleeve base is perfect when going uphill with a pack … any hotter and i overheat

a windshirt is much more useful in winter IMO as the nylon repels light snow quite easily and is very easy to shake out … snow tends to cling to fleece …. if a windshirt gets a bit damp from sweat, just hang it, wait for the moisture to freeze and knock it off

for typical PNW shoulder season where it rains alot (november had EXACTLY 2 days of no rain out here) … a windshirt is pretty useless as itll get soaked anyways with any significant precipitation and start the klingon thing to yr skin

;)

[kevperro .]

I hiked on one of those rain-less days.   And I hiked Sunday in rain & snow up to Lk. Serene.

I wore the rain shell Sunday because it was right in the mid-30s for most of the hike but if it were 5-degrees warmer I would be in the wind shell because I overheat so easily in the rain jacket.   At the top I throw on a long sleeve merino wool top underneath the shell for the way down.

I get wet in either.   I’m most interested in managing by body temp.

[James holden]

the difference between the windshirt and WPB in actual sustained cold rain … not drizzle, mist, etc … but the kind that soakes you fairly fast …

is that with a WPB you get damp from the inside … you retain quite a bit of body warmth …

with a windshell once its soaked … the cold rain will just penetrate through and soak the nylon right against yr skin … theres no opportunity to dry it out on the move as its raining …

for those in milder dryer who dont know how it feels like … just jump in the COLD shower till you and the windshirt is absolutely and totally soaked (no beading and absolutely dripping) … put it on wihtout wringing it out and go walk around outside in the cold temps … every so often pour even more ice cold water on you, never let that windshirt get dry … do that for a few hours… you may go hypothermic

folks can sometimes get away with not having waterproofs on a day hike as you end up back in the nice warm heated truck or the bar warming yrself up with a pint …

but overnight at those temps (drops close to or below freezing while soaked) … it can be pretty serious …

if one does use a windshell in the cold rain … then try to have some kind of “fluffy barrier” underneath so that the soaked shell doesnt seep right onto the skin …. a fuzzy fleece will do

the other thing is that once yr soaked (from the inside or out) … youd be surprised at how quickly you get cold … theres been times when ive been totally soaked and i can still keep a decent pace in a fleece AND WPB without overheating …

the closest analogy is going swimming as youre basically surrounded by moisture … and it cools you down enough that you dont sweat much

one other point is that if you wear a WPB under such conditions and you run hot … wear as thin a base layer and as little as reasonable underneath, knowing youll start cold and warm up as you go … and use yr zippers

the less and thinner layers you wear, the less youll get soaked from the inside … if the zippers arent enough then add on a light fleece vest if moving slowly or in technical terrain

;)

[Nick Gatel]

the difference between the windshirt and WPB in actual sustained cold rain … not drizzle, mist, etc … but the kind that soakes you fairly fast …

is that with a WPB you get damp from the inside … you retain quite a bit of body warmth …

with a windshell once its soaked … the cold rain will just penetrate through and soak the nylon right against yr skin … theres no opportunity to dry it out on the move as its raining …

Well, yeah. A windshirt isn’t rain gear. And WPB rain gear doesn’t breathe worth a darn.

 

[James holden]

ahhh but the difference up here anyways is that you dont NEED a windshirt … however you do need a rain jacket anytime outside of the middle of summer, and even then you can get days of rain

as folks have said earlier … tons of folks run around outside without a windshirt … but no one with any sanity in the PNW runs around for anything more than a day hike without some kind of rain jacket/poncho, and even on day hikes you could get stranded

i would say most folks up here dont have “windshirts” … but everyone has a rain jacet of some type … and many of those folks will easily run up things many of us will just huff and puff up and down

;)

[Justin Baker]

In wet enviroments I find a windshirt essential for moisture management, you can take off your rain jacket when you get a break in rain and put on your windshirt, blocks the wind and slows evaporative cooling while still allowing you to dry out a bit. If you want to take a snack break out of the rain, a windshirt and fleece moves moisture super efficiently, with a rain jacket over a fleece the moisture is trapped.

[James holden]

in sustained cold rain there is little moisture movement … yr windshirt is soaked and the DWR has failed … and yr continuously getting pounded by the rain which is seeping through the nylon shirt

in those conditions where exactly will you put yr soaking wet windshirts (and rain jacket and fleeces)? … in an outside pocket or strapped to the pack? … theyll get even more soaked

in the pack itself? … well everything inside will get soaked if it aint in a sealed bag … and any clothing you put in will be soaked as well, and cooling to ambient temps (30-40F) since its no longer on yr body … put those soaked ice cold clothes on again and youll loose more heat

warmish light rain (> 50F, < 10mm) … well anything reasonable will work just fine

as a note not only has nov here only had 2 days with no rain (and thats suspect since just because it doesnt rain at the weather station doesnt mean it isnt rain a few KM away) … since oct, weve had 31 days where the rain was > 10mm … and 11 days where its been > 30mm … including several 50-100mm days … and these arent quick flash thunderstorms but all day rain of several inches

at 30-50F temps in that kind of moisture, you find out very quickly what works … or you call for the free whirly bird scenic tour from the nice folks in bright colours

great for those who ski though as its dumping higher up … so all u yanks can come up and spend yr tourist dollahz at whistler/blackcomb this winter

;)

[Link .]

. THE BEST CLOTHING COMBINATIONS FOR BACKPACKING OR HIKING? .

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

Well, I guess that it shows that every person is different. :-)

For me, knowing my body and so, the windshirt works, even if it’s raining hard for hours on a cold day. I even keep my raingear in my pack sometimes; yes, I’ll get soaked but never cold, not during or after walking and I don’t need external heating for that.

[Matt Dirksen]

“Well, I guess that it shows that every person is different.”

– <i>Especially</i> our opinions!

And since every model of windshirt out there is also different (some measurably several times more breathable than the next,) it could be risky for me to create a sweeping generalization about the entire “concept” of using windshirts if my only experience is with something from one end of the performance range.

So once again, I guess we will all just simply have to figure out what will work best for us, depending on where we are going, what we have hanging in the closet, and in what season.

Sigh…

[Woubeir (from Europe)]

… or what is important for you on a piece if you are going to buy such a piece.

[Buck Nelson]

<div class=”bbp-reply-content”>

As is so often the case with discussions here on BPL, there can be a tendency to assume everyone is like you. The major missing variable here is physiological. Some people produce more heat and sweat more than others when hiking. If you are a person that perspires readily even at low levels of exertion, then a wind shirt may be a good option.

In contrast, if you are someone that does not, then you may be able to rely on a so-called WPB rain shell to serve the same purpose (warmth). I personally fall in this latter category, and can easily get by with my rain shell for warm even when moderately active. If I start to sweat in it then that means I am plenty warm and don’t need it any more. So, carrying a wind shirt is just extra weight that adds little functionality. I only use a wind shirt for trail running when my exertion level is very high.

But I know my situation is not the case for those, which includes many of my hiking buddies, that fall into the former category (i.e., those that sweat easily). I have seen where a wind shirt is a great addition to their gear, again, given their physiology.

</div>
 

Words of wisdom that I agree with completely.

[Armand C]

Depending on what part of the nation you are in, you can split the difference with a light soft shell.

Examples being Black Diamond Alpine Start, Outdoor Research Ferrosi, Mountain Hardware Zone 5 and Mountain Equipment Squall.

Living in Utah, any of the above will handle rain, wind and help keep body heat trapped well enough that the wind shirt and rain jacket combo is unnecessary.

[Justin Baker]

Eric, I was talking about quickly switching to a rain jacket to a windshirt when you have a break in the rain to let yourself dry out (assuming its too windy/chilly to stay warm with no shell) not talking about wearing the windshirt while its raining.

[James holden]

justin

if im wearing just a light base under … thats the only thing to dry and i can just put on a fleece + WPB, and itll dry just fine … now the outside of the fleece might get a bit damp as the moisture is pushed to the edge … but its fuzzy fleece

the problem here is that it might drizzle for 20 min, be misty for another 20, then start raining decently for another 20, repeat … one might constantly be taking their pack on and off and taking in/out these jackets (and each time they get a bit wet)

just to show you the “variation” in folks … my favorite climbing partner, a 5′ 100 lb female, can run around just fine in her paclite dead bird jacket and fleece … she never uses the pit zips … i got her a dead bird squamish last year and shes barely used it, simply put its not windresistance enough for her … she prefers here windstopper or paclite jacket (also dead bird)

in fact ive noticed alof of women out here hiking sustained uphill here using rain jackets

;)

[Kenneth Jacobs]

If it’s hot – No

If there are a ton of bugs – Yes [Standing moderately stationary] No [On the move…no matter the weather/bugs]

If I just need to get a little warmer sleeping – No [I’d choose the wind jacket any day]

That’s said…my wind jacket is 35.8 CFM…my rain jacket 40,000g/m²/day and I haven’t tried without the wind jacket with this most recent rain jacket yet.</span>

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