wind shirt epic fabric approx. 35cfm with permament >300mm hydrastatic head

[wander lust]

Hi there,

there is plenty of talk about the sweet spot for an alternative approach to rain wear using a wind shirt made of epic fabric with approx. 35cfm & a permament >300mm hydrastatic head.

But who currently makes them and where can such a shirt be found?
Also, who makes this in a civil colour not using any multicam colours?

I remember that the current wild things shirt not using a multicam colour only have a 5cfm rating

[Brad Rogers]

As far as I can tell there aren’t any current options.  I think the pre 2012 Houdini was 35cfm but I’m not sure it reached 300mm HH – I know mine doesn’t hold off rain long, but of course it’s not permanent DWR like EPIC.

[Stephen Seeber]

Of the wind shirts I have currently tested and are currently available, 4 have HH >300. However, the air permeability for these ranges from .6 to 3.3.  The closest I am aware of to what you are looking for is the Mountain Hardware Kor Preshell at 23 and 231.  Nextec Epic is long gone.  I have looked at 4 of them including a Greg Norman.  Highest air perm is 1.2.  Praetoria had HH of 1083 but is virtually wind proof and it has the worst MVTR of the 4.

Probably more important than the 35/300 is what kind of weather conditions you will be exposed to and the level of exertion you expect to achieve on your activities.  Today, I was hiking in >20 mph winds and 18 F temps.     A 35 CFM/Ft2  jacket is of no use in those sort of conditions.

[Brad Rogers]

In those conditions, a rain shell would probably even be OK.

[Edward John M]

I have plenty of UL EPIC fabric left in my stash but I have absolutely no idea of its properties, I also have some Praetorian here but that is far from lightweight.

I guess it is surplus to requirements now my Northern Boreal trip is cancelled

[Sam Farrington]

The original UL Epic pullovers made by Wild Things had poor breathability and left me soaked in rain/sleet storms, either from my own sweat, or from leakage, or a little of both.  Later, however, Feathered Friends and some others offered sleeping bags with Epic outers, and don’t see how they could do that if the breathability had not been improved; but can’t vouch that it was, as I wold never buy Epic anything after my experience with it..

Wild Things only makes one shell now with the Epic treatment, a High Loft cold weather Jacket made for the Marine Corps, but sold on its website.  Can’t vouch for that either.

I think much more breathable tops are out there.  It has been posted on BPL that eVent sold its process to some garment manufacturers, but GTX seems to predominate now.  I never tried the eVent, but their were many fans on BPL.  If you want data, there is the article on BPL by Alan Dickson, but it is a bit old by now.

Would offer you my two Wild Things pullovers, but know that you would be disappointed, so won’t.

[Scott Emmens]

Hi Stephen S, what do you mean by “Nextec Epic is long gone”? Are you saying it is no longer available, I assume you mean in the civilian arena?

Thanks in advance, Scott in NZ

[Stephen Seeber]

Scott:  That is my understanding.

[nunatak]

I have 178 yds orange Epic sitting under the work bench. Willing to sell yardage to any MYOG’er still believing in this fabric.

[JCH]

A tad heavy at 4.5 oz, but feature rich with pockets and pit zips, the Argon 90 wind jacket at dutchweargear claims 40 CFM. No HH quoted.

[Stephen Seeber]

I purchased some Argon 90 from Dutchweargear in 2019.  I measured the permeability at 9.4 CFM/Ft2.  I also had it tested by Touchstone Labs.  They got 8.6.  You can send Dutch an email and ask where he got the 40.  I measured the HH at 353mm/wc.  Breathability is better than average at 2820 g/m2/24hr.  If anyone has a wind shirt that they believe meets the OP’s desired performance and wants to part with it for a few days, PM me and I will test it and post the results.

[JCH]

“I purchased some Argon 90 from Dutchweargear in 2019. I measured the permeability at 9.4 CFM/Ft2. I also had it tested by Touchstone Labs. They got 8.6.”

Very interesting…I would also like to know how/where Dutch got that 40 CFM figure his is quoting.

[Stephen Seeber]

I followed the link you provided. The reference is from a response to a question that is answered under the discussion section, by Alex Thomas, who I guess is an employee. I presume that is what you have already seen. So, I guess you could ask him.

[JCH]

Stephen – You are absolutely correct, I should have paid closer attention…I assumed the response was from Dutch. Also could have sworn he mentioned this figure in his video but a second viewing showed that he did not.

I have sent an inquiry to DutchWareGear as to the source and accuracy of the 40 CFM figure and will report back if/when I receive a reply. My guess is that your tested figures are still correct, i.e. there has been no magical re-invention of the fabric.

[Edward John M]

I have 178 yds orange Epic sitting under the work bench. Willing to sell yardage to any MYOG’er still believing in this fabric.

Well that would depend on the cost and its properties but it is probably still a good fabric for a the shell layer in clothing

[JCH]

Got the following reply from DutchWareGear. Seems as though they are quoting our very own Richard Nisley, albeit Argon 90 from another cottage constructor. Full reply:

Hi,
We don’t have an official test for this but will likely have it done from IDFL. However, if you check out the link below, ARGON 90 was tested by others and came out to be around 40 CFM.
https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/100458/

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Alex

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