Wife hates NeoAir XLite – switch back to CCF?

is she using the 20 or 25 inch width xlite pad?

She is using a regular pad women version

Yes, my daughter really dislikes the narrow NeoAirs. I finally got her a wide/long version. She was happy with the size, but she didn’t like blowing it up or carrying it (around 21oz.) Others are nearly the same or more weight.  It seems to be a compromise she can live with.

CCF measurments can vary a lot. That said, I use a rule of thumb that it is roughly R1.5 per 1/2″ of thickness. Some stuff (Evazote) has a lot more at about R2+ per 1/2″ thickness. Some is a bit less at around R.75 for 1/2″ thickness. Some is rather stiff, like a military style pad. Some is rather soft like the old black pads. Some are a couple layers. Some are corrugated (similar to ZLites/Nightlites/Luna.

Zlite/Nightlite/Luna have about the best Rvalues. While Zlites have an Rvalue of 2.5, these are not quite as high as a Luna. Basically, you can add two together, but with a radiant barrier, only one barrier really works well. A mylar film and a Luna will weigh less and generally be more effective. But, a RidgeRest and a mylar pad are a good option too. You can get a couple WIDE ones (25″) at https://www.backcountrygear.com/camping-and-hiking/sleeping-pads/closed-cell-pads/therm-a-rest-ridgerest-classic.html.  You can, of course, trim them down to length as needed.

Anyway, plan on two 5/8″ or 3/4″ pads at an R5+ and a weight of around 38oz for wide ones.

I have the narrow XLite.  I found that if it’s fully inflated I would slid off sometimes, but letting some air out, I settle into it and it’s fine.

She might like a Thermarest Trail Pro in large—which means it’s 25 inches wide.  It’s my standard winter pad at 4R and augmented with a Ridgerest Solar pad at 3.5R.

Here’s a pic of the Trail Pro (not inflated) next to my standard size Solar ccf pad.  When the Trail Pro is inflated it has a higher perimeter edge “bubble” which helps to keep you on the pad and not slip off the side.

Another option would be to dispense with an inflatable and go with two Solar pads—combined comes to 7R—though bulky.  The large comes in at 25 inches wide. (My above pic is a standard 20 inch wide ccf pad).

As much as I try to love air only pads I often find myself taking the foam or CCF or some combo. Air pads just are not “it” for me. They slide on the ground, you can slide on them, they can be clammy or sweaty , the air pressure can change a lot in the night on a poorly insulated one ..  , and they can really fail sometimes. However, that being said, nothing is as comfy as a big air pad inflated properly on a nice level site ..

Question,,, have your considered switching wives..?  ;)

I really enjoy the exped ul7 in medium wide. I had the same problem. I wanted a wider pad, but didn’t need the extra length. I really do not understand why more manufactures do not offer this option. That pad really helped me.

I have a neo air xlite. I kept sliding off. My nylon bag and cuben bathtub floor are both slippery. I applied some seam seal to both sides, to increase friction. Works great now.

However, adding the seam seal perhaps added an oz. Now I’m just 3 oz lighter than the Xtherm. The Xtherm is less prone to punctures and is warmer, and has enough friction so you don’t slide off at night.

I have a thermarest pro-lite. It only takes 6 puffs of air to blow it up. It’s got some foam inside although you still have to blow it up to be cushioned enough to sleep on. Feels wide enough for me and I’m not a skinny woman.

I think some bodies just like different baffle styles. Do you have access to a retail store where she could try a few out in real life?

Maybe the Exped ones or similar vertical baffles — and they have wider baffles on the edges to prevent rolling off.

Maybe Nemo Tensor or a Big Anges? BA does wide widths at normal lengths on some.

Personally I like wide NeoAirs.

When the glorified air mattresses first came out, I tried one.  Called NeoAir or something like that.
First, tried to blow it up. Took much longer than the Nemo foam/air pads I’d been using since they were more comfy than the Thermarests.
Then laid down on it. Just like every other air mattress – and the reason I would never, ever buy an air bed. So easy to roll off of, and zero feeling that there is anything solid under me.
And it also made an awful crinkly racket.
Who in their right mind would every buy one of these, I asked myself.
Then they took off like hotcakes.

From following BPL forums, this sort of thing seems to happen all time.
With the right marketing spin and some clever online publicity, the worse piece of trashy gear can become the latest fad. Some behavioral scientists on the tube say it is a symptom of how online connection has changed how we think. Many seem to have lost the ability for critical thinking.

Many of the Nemo air/foam pads, partially ‘self-inflating,’ already have friction strips on the bottom. And if you look around, there are some with slightly over-inflated strips along the sides to further prevent rolling off. (If is a matter of SLIDING off, then the ground under the tent may not be level).

Then your partner will be happy, and you won’t have to trade her for a piece of junk (which also occurs too often in human relationships), as someone commented.
And when the next war comes, and it will if history is any judge, you’ll be able to sleep comfortably on a thin foam pad.

PS – Don’t let anyone tell you it is gauche to have an air/foam mat rolled up and attached horizontally to the lower part of the pack. The air/foam ones roll up to just a few inches diameter, and are so light they don’t affect balance. And they provide great protection for tent poles, with the pole bag slid next to the rolled up mat in the mat bag.

Kudos to Kevin T – +10

Sam, in many ways I agree with you. In many ways I do not.

Way back when they were fist released, I found them a bit difficult to blow up. It only takes a minute or two, though. Somewhat longer than the 30sec needed for the GuideLights or ProLights, but the same idea.

The size was a BIG bonus, since I was always looking for smaller volume in my pack. At something less than a quart bottle, it rolled up nicely and one end fit into my cup. No more bulky pad on top of my wifes pack, though I was using a NightLite as a frame in my G5 by then along with a Prolight.

The weight was a BIG bonus. I was close to 2 pounds total for sleeping pads. OK, I was still hitting UL weights, even with a SVEA, so it didn’t bother me. The NeoAir med was only 13oz.  The ProLight was 18oz. Even carrying two pads, it was a lot lighter.

And on colder spring and fall nights, it kept me quite warm, I was down to 10F in snow once and slept OK. The combination of CCF/NeoAir worked very well.  The insulation was better than the ProLights (caused by both the increased thickness and the heat reflective film inside.)The combination of the NightLite and NeoAir meant I always had about an R5.5+ with me, even in a late winter cold snap. I often rolled off my CCF pad, anyway, and, I woke up cold. Instead, I would begin to roll off, wake up and stay on the pad (about the same as sleeping on a bed at home.)

And, it was far more rugged than it appeared, though not as rugged as a CCF pad. I do not find them excessively noisy. Nor are they overly slippery, as long as I slept on fairly level ground. It also had the advantage of covering minor obstructions (roots for example.) I can pretty much ignore the small knots and bumps that came through the older GuideLites. So I had a wider range of potential camp-sites. I used CCF pads/forest duff long before I got the Guidelites. And the Guidelites for a long time before the ProLites. Old bones, I guess, I got the Neoairs right after I retired and have been using them ever since. I find them to be as comfortable as my bed is at home, generally.

They can fail catastrophically with a puncture, though. You need some sort of back-up, in the case this happens.

Anyway, some people, like Gregory’s wife or you, that simply don’t like inflatables.

Yep, buy her a “self-inflator” foam filled mattress. Nice and low and warm. In 3 season use I have a 16 oz. Thermarest Prolite. There is a woman’s version with more insulation in the middle area. If it’s going to be chilly I put my pants and shirt under it for a bit more insulation.

I’ve switched back to CCF.  Never wanted to carry the weight of a self-inflating pad, my finger joints don’t like forcing the air out to roll it up properly in the morning, and didn’t want to risk a puncture.  Then a few years ago wanted to see what all the fuss was about and got a NeoAir Xlite short.  (I’m short anyway.)  Vulnerable to punctures but so light.  Then tried sleeping on it.  Fully inflated, it’s not that I roll off of it, it’s that it “pops” out from under me!  I have to deflate it by about half to prevent that.  Not so comfortable.  Then fractured my left distal clavicle and the doctor said use an air pad until it healed.  Got an REI Flash, the red one with the dimpled structure.  Heavier than the NeoAir or the short Ridgerest but quite comfortable, easy to sleep on.  Worked for me all that summer.  Still not thrilled with puncture vulnerability but it didn’t happen.  Only one thing, somehow, although it is cushy, I don’t seem to feel “grounded” like I do on the Ridgerest.  When I go to the gear shelf to choose a pad–Flash or Ridgerest?–somehow I always seem to end up with the Ridgerest.

Re: “They can fail catastrophically with a puncture, though. You need some sort of back-up, in the case this happens.”  So what is “some sort of back-up” and does the weight of whatever it is go into the calculations when comparing CCF and air pads?

The Ridgerest is R 2.8 and the Xlite is R 3.2.  If you need R 4-5 (winter?) I guess you could add a supplemental pad like Nightlight or something.  A women’s ProLite Plus is R 4.2 and weighs 22 oz plus whatever your “back-up” weighs.

This is how my boyfriend blows up his neoair.

That thing is called the Instaflator. It seems like the same sort of plastic as a plastic grocery bag. Very light. He’s not sure how long it is supposed to last but he’s used it on many trips including a few mult-week trips. You basically just scoop up a bunch of air with it, then roll it up and it inflates your mattress. It has a valve that attaches to your mattress while you’re squeezing the air in.

As a person who sleeps next to a person with a neo air (I don’t have a neo air myself) I can tell you that they’re only a little bit noisy. My sleep isn’t disturbed. I backpacked with a guy from Japan and whatever air mattress he had, now that thing was noisy. He’d be camping 10 feet away and his tossing and turning woke me up every time. It sounded like he was sleeping on a pile of balloons. The main beef I have sleeping next to someone with a neoair is that it’s like 2″ thick and my air mattress is only about 3/4″ thick so it’s a little hard to cuddle up with him.

Mina, the “self inflating” pads (GuideLite, Prolite, etc) have a bit of foam in them (NOT closed cell foam or CCF.) These tend to be lighter because you really don’t need a back up, though they loose comfort and insulating value without inflating. I used these for a while, but they did not support my pack very well, even partially inflated. So, I just used the CCF/NightLite.

The CCF pads of course, don’t need a back-up. There is nothing to puncture. These can degrade over about 20 years becoming much flatter, harder with less insulating value. I used these exclusively for about 5 years. But, I always paid by scraping up a certain amount of duff around them into a raised platform for sleeping…an extra 5 minutes in camp.

Inflatables loose all or most of their comfort and insulating value if they leak. They just turn into a piece of plastic. This is what I mean by needing a back-up. You can scrape up a lot of forest duff as a back up in most areas. Since I carry a NightLite for pack support, this is part of my sleep system, too.

Some inflatables have insulation inside them. this usually does not help much with comfort. I tried an older Exped downmat a while ago and didn’t really care for it. A lot of fiddling with the inflater.

I usually carry two pads. 1) NightLite-Torso pad. On single week outings, 3 layers supplies all the support for the packpack I need. It supplies my camp chair (back and bottom against a log/tree.) And it supplies my “back-up” pad…a 3/4″ thick torso (about 20″x30″) pad. For two week trips, I usually use a different pack with a five layer 20″x52″ torso pad. This supplies more support for the additional food/fuel weight. That is what I used for many years before I added the NeoAir. 2) NeoAir pad. These are all for comfort/insulation while I sleep. They really don’t supply any dual-use (though in hot weather they are touted as good floats for swimming. I never bother…) But, if I puncture them, or wear them to the point of multiple leaks in the bottom, they go flat. This has happened twice over about 10 years.

All of the inflatables leak a little. Like a balloon, bicycle tire or a vinyl ball, they let small amounts of air escape right through the skin. The valves, even on the old GuideLites, would sometimes pick up a piece of leaf litter or sand causing a slight leak.

Try a rectangular or wide, or both of those before giving up. I just don’t get on with mummy pads.

@James, Yes I know the foam in a self-inflating pad is open cell.  I just wouldn’t expect it to provide much insulation if it got punctured.  Maybe a little more than an air pad but not enough to tip my choice.  The insulated air pads have either that mylar-like stuff (neoairs) or jacket stuffing (a lot of brands) or both (Flash and others I think).  None of it helpful after a puncture. : )

Check out Sea to Summit pads. They blow up fast, use the preferred flat valve (why the heck doesn’t Thermarest dump the stupid stick valve and use a flat valve?), and comes with inflation stuff sack. They have models in several different R values.

Thankfully the outdoor industry is going to R value testing for all manufacturers, so Big Agnes pads will have to meet the real world with their current ratings.

Thank you for your answers!

I’m just thinking if maybe Big Agnes pad+bag combo would work for her. Their pads have full-length sleeves for the pad, so maybe falling from it is impossible?

My wife is short: 5’4″ and not a big woman at less than 130 lbs. Last time we were sleeping in a tent the smallest girl (5y.o.) crawled into her bag. This “phenomenon” led me to think about very wide bag and pad and probably ditch the sleeping system of a girl at all.

Now all members of my family sleep in Sierra Designs Cloud 20 sleeping bags on top of NeoAir XLites. This results in (340+800) * 2 = 2280 gram for mom + girl.

While BA bags are not light (the wide version of, say, Angil is 1400 gram) I’m going to be around same weight anyway.

Does it sound like a viable solution?

Also found some great bag for a side sleeper: jam women’s down sleeping bag

The shape looks awesome. I would buy it for myself if it wasn’t that heavy.

If I compare side-by-side with the BA Anvil Horn (15):

Actually, it’s pretty strange. They both same weight, but in Nemo Jam there is 800 gram 800 FP down and in the BA Anvil Horn there is 650 gram 650 FP down! Still, look at the girths! The BA Anvil Horn is roomier!