Why am I so cold?!

1) Agree with the better pad. I switched to an xtherm and it made a huge difference.

2) I am a huge fan of VBL and agree that this is PART of an overall system but likely on the lower end. BUT just the simple addition of plastic grocery bags between liner socks and you insulation makes a huge difference.

3) are you wearing all of your layers when you go to bed or do you add layers during the night? I found if I add all layers when I go to bed that I tend to get colder since I often will overheat initially.

Try eating more (Calories=heat), drinking more (helps the body function properly), urinating a lot more (the body has to keep all that water in your bladder warm at the expense of your extremities) and eliminating additional stress (stress causes blood vessels to constrict which keeps the warm blood from circulating properly).

I’ll also throw in how incredibly awesome down booties are!

The same weight (or lighter) as good sleeping socks…and they are absolute HEAVEN!!!

+1 on Jennifer’s suggestions. I upgraded to a warmer pad and down booties last year.  Those would be my first 2 choices to keep from getting cold. Very difficult to stay warm if you’re not well insulated from the cold ground.

I have found I need to warm up my sleeping bag.

If I go to bed with layers on, the bag will stay cold. So, now I get into the bag with just long underwear and sleep socks. After the bag is warmed up (and if the night gets colder) I’ll add the down sweater.

Absolutely +1 on the hot water bottle. It’ll keep you warm before you go to bed. Lots of problems if you’re not warm before you get into your sleeping bag.

My only experience with a quilt is sleeping with the bag unzipped, useful on 60F nights. First thing I do when it gets colder is zip up the bag. I had to exchange my 20F Zpacks bag for a 30F. The 20F was so warm I had to keep the bag in quilt mode at 45F.

I’ve migrated to a Zpacks hexamid twin. It is a way cold shelter compared to a double walled tent, or even a Copper Spur.

To some extent, it doesn’t matter where you add warmth.

If you have a warmer sleeping bag you can get away with a less warm pad, etc.

Your body will shift more blood to cold areas

These are all such great responses! Thanks!

To answer a few questions, I typically empty my bladder before going to bed, if I’m really cold I eat a high caloric bar, my quilt is already set up and lofted, I wear just BLs, socks, hoodlum, and mittens to bed, I add layers when I wake up cold, and I cinch and button my quilt around my neck so I’m basically mummified.

I tried the CCF on top of the NeoAir and it did feel a bit warmer, but it was also a very warm night (60s, humid), I was sleeping next to a very warm person, and I was in a double-walled tent with a rain fly. So it wasn’t the most accurate test, but it’s a start.

I have heard of the hot water bottle trick, and I may give it a go. I was contemplating hiking the High Sierra Trail with cold food only, but I might benefit from carrying a stove just for the purpose of staying warm. Hot chocolate with butter sounds delicious, although I’m not sure I’ll be able to find butter that doesn’t need to be refrigerated. Maybe I’ll try it with olive oil packets.

I have a pair of Darn Tough crew socks. I’ll try those first, but down booties sounds very appealing also. Maybe I’ll look out for some inexpensive used ones.

Regarding shelter, I really love bivy camping and my Snowyside is great. I think I’ll try as many of the other suggestions before looking into changing my shelter. If it gets unbearably cold in the Sierras, my grandpa will have a Zpacks double tent of some sort and offered to let me sleep with him on especially cold nights.

My last question is regarding down pants:

I was thinking that for sitting around camp, these might be beneficial. Is it not a good idea to sleep in them because I’ll compress some of the loft?

I’m curious what kind of butter needs to be refrigerated?  We let ours sit on the counter for several days to a week until it’s all used, even in the summer.  It might get very soft but doesn’t spoil.

It seems very strange that even in the 60’s you’re still cold.  Are you cold before you go to sleep?  What if you kept all your clothes on and added the quilt?  Are you cold at home?

Sounds like your pad is a major problem.  If a warmer pad doesn’t work, maybe you should try a hammock and under quilt.  I think Under ground quilts will rent a full setup for you to try.

Oh yeah…now that I think of it, my parents never refrigerate their butter. I guess I just do it out of habit.

I’d say on average I tend to be cold when it is <60°. I felt cold sitting around camp in the 60s, but it was tolerable. I am very cold sleeping in the 50s, freezing in the 40s, and miserable in the 30s. I’m not even going to consider winter/sub-30° camping/backpacking until I get my 3-season situation figured out.

“I’d say on average I tend to be cold when it is <60°. I felt cold sitting around camp in the 60s, but it was tolerable. I am very cold sleeping in the 50s, freezing in the 40s, and miserable in the 30s. I’m not even going to consider winter/sub-30° camping/backpacking until I get my 3-season situation figured out.”

Are you cold even at home?

My wife is similar build to you and typically cold.  She just needs to wear more clothes and is good.  Put her in the cheap 0 degree eureka bag and she is toasty warm.  There seems to be some serious flaw in your setup or maybe a health condition.

if you keep the heat off in your house and use your setup are you warm?  Would you be warm in your bed with your quilt?  Say at 60*

See, you sound like me more than 15 years ago. Could not shift me to believe I would ever be warm…

Last weekend (was it just yesterday?) we were in Big Basin over near Santa Cruz. It was likely in the low 50s – high 40s. I didn’t put on a jacket until I felt cold, was in short sleeves, and it was dusk. It was about the same temp all night and in the morning I hardly wore a jacket. Part of the problem is acclimation – the body deceives us. I see people walking around in heavy jackets all the time, saw them over the weekend, but I was warm while hiking and my boyfriend actually took off his shirt and soaked it in a cold creek on the way up a ridge. Couldn’t have been higher than the mid 60s, overcast during the day.

I have noticed that going from very warm (the fire, the visitor center, the warmed up car) to normal outside temps, I am cold, but acclimate quickly.

Part of it is increasing the amount of time you spend outdoors, I think. Training the body to do what it naturally does – do the temperature regulating on its own without central air and heating. Exercise outdoors has helped me a lot.

I know there are times that I will feel cold, but embracing that and reassuring myself that I am not showing any signs of hypothermia and I’ll be warm again shortly are no longer even necessary — I know how it goes now, that I have a system and it works, and feeling cold does not mean the entire trip will be cold. Once you get this figured out it will stop being a problem.

There was a thread about acclimatizing to cold

If you sleep in cold room with few blankets for a couple weeks ahead.  Or take cold showers.  Don’t use so much warm clothing…

I think there’s some biological thing.  Blood flow or fat next to skin or something.

Supposedly, cold will help you lose weight also.

bri …

physiological issues aside …

i suspect that you simply need more insulation …. ie a warmer pad and bag

some folks are link that, my climbing partner included, she can be in a -20F winter bag in the store and not even sweat …

for mild temps we got her a true 20F womens bag (10F mens) …thatll only be good down to around freezing for her …

;)

“Supposedly, cold will help you lose weight also.”

Ha! Sure… if you don’t eat more. I live in snow country and every fall when it starts to get cold my entire body seems to scream one thing: EAT MORE FOOD!!! And I begin to suck up food like a vacuum cleaner. Others who live in the are notice the same thing.

Still, what Lori says is true. I notice people out at 50F in shorts and T-shirts washing their cars with 32F water. And when I drive to the lowlands in the winter it certainly seems too warm… even on a cold day.

BUT… when Lori talks about cold and warm…. please, readers, remember those are relative terms. How cold? How warm?

There is tremendous individual variation in people. Some people’s biology may not adapt as well to cold, and others may not want or wish to adapt psychologically. And then there is age. Age also affects metabolism and the ability to stay warm. As I get older I have noticed that if I let myself get to a certain point of being too cold I just can’t seem to warm up. I’m not talking hypothermic levels of cold; I’m talking comfort levels.

So readers beware. What Lori recommends may not work for you. Or it might. Listen to your own body more than anyone’s advice.

Personally, even though I live in snow country and feel much warmer than lowlanders in the cold, I still can be cold in a 20F sleeping bag with down jacket and fleece pants on inside at about 35F!

Billy

That’s why I keep mentioning those pesky temperatures… People consistently say cold and I talk temperatures, and carry a thermometer.

There is cold in comfort terms, and cold in survival terms, also. My current residence is in the central valley and it’s already been 90F here – and so I mean cold differently at home than I do in the mountains. 72F feels cold, here, when I walk in an office. 50F can feel cold, or not, depending on a lot of things, in the mountains.

One of the best things I’ve ever done is let go of expectations and be mindful, and develop reasonable expectations instead of anxious ones.

billy brings up a good point

just to add to it … while its nice to “train” for the cold, dont risk your health for it

these days when i try to sleep with “less” insulation, i usually end of with a cough or the start of a cold …

sure explorers and mountaineers used to train themselves (and still do) to acclimatize to the cold, but unless you live farther up north, for the average hiker its not needed

down is light as is an xtherm … though perhaps not cheap

for some folks who sleep cold, using a minimal system is a losing game IMO … youll either end up cold, or youll need to sleep with everything you have (a down jacket is less efficient than a warmer bag), and have no margin at all if the temps drop even more

unless you have a specific alpine or racing goal … those extra oz on warm insulation are probably the best youll ever spend …. theres plenty of places to cut back elsewhere

;)

you want to avoid frost bite – I don’t have experience with that

you want to avoid hypothermia – where your thinking starts screwing up.  You can still function at the beginning.

If it’s too cold, I don’t sleep well.  I want more insulation than that – mat, sleeping bag, hat, booties,…  I can probably effect that by acclimatizing beforehand?

Before that, I can be a little cold but just ignore it.  That’s okay.

Sometimes my fingers will get cold and start losing dexterity.  Like preparing breakfast and packing up in the morning.  Putting my hands in my pocket helps, but then I can’t do anything.  Fingerless mittens helps some.

At some point my water starts freezing and my stove slows way down, but that’s a little different topic.

“If a warmer pad doesn’t work, maybe you should try a hammock and under quilt.”

Why would hammock camping ever be a warmer alternative? Ground temperature is far easier to insulate from than air temp. Unless one is camping in the middle of winter, ground temps are typically warmer and more stable than nighttime air temps.

Putting temperature aside, please don’t forget that relative humidity plays a major role into one’s perception of hot & cold. A cold & humid day will always feel 100 times colder than a cold & dry day. Tending to moisture is as important as tending to temperature. Becoming too hot too quickly in a humid sleeping situation can lead to sweating, which can introduce unwanted convection, and ultimately make you even colder.

Finally, I (as several others have mentioned before) would NEVER recommend messing with VBL in your particular situation. Any consideration of using that technique (especially outside of sub zero temperatures) is a recipe for extreme discomfort, little sleep, and even hypothermia if not executed perfectly.

Between chugging butter and a better pad, I still vote: a warmer pad.

“I can’t believe it’s not (rancid) butter!” seriously, I always just assumed that butter would go bad in my bear canister. Live and learn.

when you’re sleeping on the ground, you compress any insulation so it doesn’t work so good.  Mats are designed to resist compression though.

with a hammock, you can have uncompressed insulation under, which is a good thing

like you said, sleeping on the ground is good because the ground temperature is warmer than the air.  The ground itself provides some insulation

“with a hammock, you can have uncompressed insulation under, which is a good thing”

REALLY??? How is that so? If I weigh 200 lbs, I am still putting 200lbs of pressure against the ground or the hammock, right? And if the insulation is between me and the ground or the hammock it still compresses, no?

billy

And if the insulation is between me and the ground or the hammock it still compresses, no?

The underquilt drapes under the hammock and is not compressed.

I have thyroid disease and thus am an extremely cold sleeper. i have a similar set up to you and the main difference I see is that I put my CCF pad on TOP of my air mattress. Air mattresses don’t only suck up cold from the ground, they also absorb it from the air around them. I have much better luck keeping warm if I put my CCF on top to block the cold coming through my air mattress.

Other than that, I wear light long johns to bed, a hat or balaclava, and if it’s quite cold I boil water, pour it in my water bottle, drop the bottle in a sock and plant it between my legs. It keeps me toasty warm all night long, for little increase in weight. (It does increase somewhat only because I use a SS bottle so I don’t get plastic leaching into my water).

ETA: I also wear down socks.

“And if the insulation is between me and the ground or the hammock it still compresses, no?

The underquilt drapes under the hammock and is not compressed.”

So if you want to be warm in a hammock you need to take both an under quilt and an over quilt or a sleeping bag??? And some kind of awning or floating tent if it rains? And if that under quilt is just hanging, I imagine there is a pretty good air gap between the hammock and the under quilt due to it hanging? Gee… somehow this hammocking seems a bit complicated… and heavy. Or am I missing something?

I don’t think the original poster mentioned anything about staying warm in a hammock…she sleeps on the ground with a pad.