Which pack question

Zpacks Nero? You can add the hip belt with pockets. You can attach pad against the back. 38L is a lot, and it swallows gear like a champ. Its also very lightweight and plenty water resistant too. You can also add the Y strap over top if you want it.

Here is mine packed for a trip 2 weeks ago. Hard to tell but that’s my sleeping pad against the back. Nemo Switchback pad.

If you liked the Hell I think a Burn or Prophet makes sense. I don’t have a Burn right now to compare to my Hell but the body is marginally larger plus the side pockets and front pocket. I love the Prophet but the size tempts me to bring too much weight for a frameless pack. Hey Ron, I wish I could buy a Prophet with a light frame from you.

I think MLD makes the best shoulder straps in the business. If you like them then the choice is (almost) obvious.

The other company that totally nails shoulder straps for me is Atom Packs. I love my 40 liter Atom+ which does have a really simple frame that effectively gives me a couple more pounds of weight carrying comfort over the Prophets I no longer own. I think this is a really nice solution. The only thing I don’t care for are the default shoulder strap pockets which cost money to delete. They aren’t bad but I’d rather just have daisy chains and put my preferred pocket on there when a trip calls for it. Side and front pockets are great on the Atom+. I have yet to carry anything in the bottom pocket so I’d delete that on a custom one. The hipbelt is great at only 3” tall with lots of foam and mesh. I wouldn’t want to haul 35# in this pack but I haven’t wanted to carry that much in years so I’m good.

If you definitely want frameless I bet the Atom in the default fabric would be great and it’s under $200 iirc.

I looked Atom, Waymark, ULA CDT, a couple of the Gossamer Gears, and a couple others.  I’m with you about bottom pockets.  They seem to be the new big thing but I don’t see much use.  Here in the Southeast any time one puts a pack down it’s likely to get wet and dirty, and I want my trash in a sealed bag in my food bag.  YMMV. I’m also a fan of daisy chains.  And money is definitely a factor, trying to stay $250 ish or cheaper, with all the Black Friday deals.  Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll look more closely at Atom.

The GG Kumo is another longtime favorite and an absolute steal at $119 right now. I like the wide width and narrow depth front to back. It carries so well. Materials and craftsmanship do not match MLD or Atom but plenty of people have them last for a long time. I’ve had my Kumo longer than any other pack in my closet and you won’t ever see me listing it on Gear Swap.

When are you planning on going?  I’m also planning a rim to rim next year.

But I’m planning on carrying more weight due to the weight of water.  The waterlines begin construction next month, so I’m aiming for a fall hike before the water is shut off. I wanted to go in the spring, but it doesn’t seem likely all the water lines will be functional for a spring trip, and that would mean carrying more water than I care to.

My current plan is to carry between 3-5 liters of water a day, so I’m tentatively planning on taking my old Exos.  I want the frame to put the water weight on my hips.

What’s your planned route?  I’m have two plans: North Kaibab to Cottonwood to Bright Angel Campground to Havasupai/Indian Gardens to the top.  Or I might skip Cottonwood and hike straight down to Bright Angel.  Depends what I can get for permits.

Here’s the list of closures:  https://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/trail-closures.htm#waterlineClosures

I’d look at offerings from SWD. Can’t speak to their smaller packs, but the 70L Wendigo/Wolverine leaves the Catalyst in the dirt in terms of comfort/usability. Phenomenal packs, designed “right” from the ground up.

Yama has a batch of Sassafras packs in production right now, might be worth a look.