Which is better Overfill WM Versalite or a WM Antelope

[Josh]

I feel paralyzed as which would be better. I am looking for a winter bag but not extremely deep winter as I haven’t tried that yet. I am thinking mainly hiking with wanting to be comfy in low teens. Thinking October Sierras or other hikes that are cold but not deep snow.

 

I am torn between getting an Overfill Versalite or just getting a regular filled Antelope. I am also confused as which fabric would suit me better for winter. I most likely will hike with a single wall tent or use a bivy.

[bradmacmt]

I’ve had both (both with overfill) and currently use the Versalite with overfill. I’ve been using the Versalite for the last 12 years (since it first became available). I’m happy with it down to 10* and I like the weight savings over the Antelope. If I were going with a heavier, warmer bag than the Versalite  I’d go with the Lynx.

I doubt you could go wrong with either. Neither is up to our Montana winters, but I am happy with the Versalite well into November as long as the temps don’t go below zero.

 

My .02… doubt it helped much! :)

[Michael S]

The Versalite uses Extremelite outer shell fabric that is not as breathable as WM Microfiber outer shell.

I have the Antelope in both 6’0″ and 6’6″ lengths and have used them with a RAB Ridge Raider bivy for years with great success. I previously owned a Versalite and found it to be clammy when used with a bivy. Extremelite is less breathable than Microfiber. The Antelope is good to zero degrees and I an a cold sleeper. Hope this helps.

[James Marco]

Be a bit carefull about overfills. While great for longer term usability, overfilling can compress all the down making it about the same temperature as it was, rather than gaining anything.

[bradmacmt]

Be a bit carefull about overfills. While great for longer term usability, overfilling can compress all the down making it about the same temperature as it was, rather than gaining anything.

I’d love to see the proof for that… I doubt WM would make it available were it not OK. They’re a pretty darn good co.

[John Vance]

There are a number of threads discussing down density with Richard Nisley authoring a good portion of the data. The short answer is that down can be overfilled up to 2.5x and maintain approximately 90% of its insulating value. While I have not overfilled a bag to those levels I have added 25% more to a bag that was filled to 130% initially.  My anecdotal evidence is that it added additional warmth – another 10-15 degrees while eliminating any down shifting and the associated cold spots.

With respect to the bags in question, as pointed out earlier, the microfiber fabric is more breathable and something I prefer in a cold weather bag.

[James Marco]

Brad, there is a limit to how much overstuffing can help. 1-3oz is probably about all you can get without loosing some insulating value. It does gain, but not as much as fully lofted down. Of course, this depends on how much down the bag already has. Here is the description from WM:

Overfill adds additional fill to your bag. This increases the warmth of the bag by 3 to 5 degrees. It will improve warmth for active sleepers since moving during sleep can shift down. Overfill also improves loft duration. During extended use down becomes clumped with moisture, dirt, and oils. Overfill prevents this by adding more fluff. Check out this list of overfillable items and the cost:
<table id=”tablepress-3″ class=”tablepress tablepress-id-3″>
<thead>
<tr class=”row-1″>
<th class=”column-1″>Bag</th>
<th class=”column-2″>Overfill Fill Weight</th>
<th class=”column-3″>Cost</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr class=”row-2″>
<td class=”column-1″>Foot Box Overfill (any bag), Tamarack</td>
<td class=”column-2″>1.5oz</td>
<td class=”column-3″>$27.00</td>
</tr>
<tr class=”row-3″>
<td class=”column-1″>MityLite, SummerLite, MegaLite, UltraLite, Alder MF, Sycamore MF, Apache MF & GWS</td>
<td class=”column-2″>2oz</td>
<td class=”column-3″>$32.00</td>
</tr>
<tr class=”row-4″>
<td class=”column-1″>TerraLite, AlpinLite, VersaLite, Badger MF & GWS, Antelope MF & GWS, Ponderosa MF,</td>
<td class=”column-2″>3oz</td>
<td class=”column-3″>$48.00</td>
</tr>
<tr class=”row-5″>
<td class=”column-1″>Sequoia MF & GWS, Kodiak MF & GWS, Lynx MF & GWS</td>
<td class=”column-2″>4oz</td>
<td class=”column-3″>$60.00</td>
</tr>
<tr class=”row-6″>
<td class=”column-1″>Bristlecone MF, Puma MF & GWS, Cypress GWS, Bison GWS</td>
<td class=”column-2″>5oz</td>
<td class=”column-3″>$78.00</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
Note that they only recommend a small amount of overfill (~15% of the existing down.) Like sleeping on the bottom of your bag, you loose insulating value by compressing it. More than one overfill by the WM folks causes this same effect. You get around a 3F degree increase in temp rating, in an otherwise 10F rated bag. Without space to loft, the down becomes less and less efficient (down to the thermal conductivity of the plumes.) At some point, the temp graphs MUST cross between adding warmth and increasing compression. (Likely close to 30% overfill, but this is a guestimate from looking at the 3F increase in temp rating.) At the crossing point, you gain no more increase, hence adding more is weight and temperature inefficient…you gain nothing by overfilling more. Many years ago I talked to WM about that (in relation to a bag) and that was the just of what they were saying.

A clean bag, will last about a week before it starts to degrade (from body oils, dirt and dust infiltration, mostly.) This is using a set of long johns inside. Without the long johns a bit sooner. In a cold weather bag, icing can occur inside the down (as the dew point moves into the down.) An overstuff will give you about 1 extra night in 10 out, for immediate durability. For long term durability, overstuff will help by replacing some of the damaged down (damage occurring from simply sleeping on it, a small amount of tearing occurs each time. Simply washing with water and drying it will help the bag by removing body oils and some dirt.) Personnaly, I never stay out in 10f weather for any length of time. I would opt for the looser lofting of the Antilope and keeping the bag clean than using an overfilled Versalite.

[John Vance]

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/12505/#94791

 

Down density discussion

[bradmacmt]

James, no offense, but this discussion IS about WM bags… they don’t “overfill their overfill” so I found your initial remark remark unnecessary.

Been using WM bags since 1992, have always had overfill, including the three current at the house… no issues. Hermit Hut adds overfill for free, so cost isn’t an issue.

[James Marco]

Yeah, well this IS backpackinglight. Anything that adds weight for no immediate value is not a good thing. 3F isn’t enough to bother with. Some places allow overfill by the oz. You pays your money, you take your chances. Putting 5-6oz in a bag IS possible. Other than expedition type trips and long term durability, I don’t think overfill in WM bags is worth it. For most, WM bags are good the way they are sold. Keep them clean, and, avoid using them more than a week. If I need an extra 3-6oz of overfill, I would far rather it is in my more versatile jacket. At least it gets used every night/morning, besides adding to the bag.

 

[bradmacmt]

Yeah, well this IS backpackinglight.

Avoid using them more than a week.

So your solution is to reccomend a heavier sleeping bag and not use it for more than a week… wow, good to know.

[Scott Smith]

Call WM  and have a chat with them about your query..  I’ve found them very  helpful, in the past..

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Good question.

I have an overfilled WM Megalite that is good for me to 20 F. with just light polyest4er base layer.

To 10 F. in my “Megalite Plus” I wear mid weight polyester base layer and 200 weight fleece pants and jacket or synthetic pants and jacket and light fleece balaclava. Never even been close to cold with those setups. My mattress is an REI FLASH Insulated 3 season air mattress. Works very well.

BTW, I got the Megalite for its wider girth so wearing insulated clothing would not be a tight fit that compresses the bag’s loft.

 

[rOg w]

Antelope… hands down!  I have both bags.  I also prefer the Badger over the Alpinlite and the breathability of the microfiber is worth the extra weight every time.  The comfort range feels wider in the microfiber bags.

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