What rain gear are you guys using these days?

I use a Sitka Shakedry jacket and Montbell rain pants. The to together weight less than 8 ounces and keeps me nice and dry in pouring rain.

The cycling world says that Shakedry fabric will be retired after current inventory is gone, due to suppy chain issues. https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/shakedry-fabric-is-set-to-be-retired-by-gore/

Lightheart gear rain jacket (this is newer and not really tested ), and marmot precip rain pants – I really only pack them from November-March here (southern Midwest) – If is above 50 degrees, I will sweat like crazy wearing rain gear while hiking.

I will still pack the jacket most unless I know it will not drop below 50.  Then I take an umbrella and older z-packs dcf rain skirt (although I only wear this in downpours – I use it almost every night as a ground cloth for my gear in vestibule, or under my hammock).  Currently still using a go-lite umbrella (had it for years) – hopefully the kids found me a new one for christmas – I did email them a link….

“supply chain issues.”

Sorry, but that’s a bunch of BS.

Shakedry has had durability problems from the very beginning, but nobody seems to be challenging this. You can’t stretch or compress a membrane like this (as in hiking or backpacking – carrying a pack – or bushwhacking, or even stuffing) without damaging it. It’s really fragile. Fine for cycling or ultrarunning, but these aren’t big enough markets for Gore (*they really need lifestyle users). This is a really big company ($3.5B+ annual revenues) that writes really big fabric contracts to third-party suppliers. So when they go to their fabric supplier and say, hey, we only need .2 million yards of this fabric, and it has to meet this spec and offered in pretty colors, and we need to have a margin of 75%, which amounts to somewhere around $.1M end-product profit to Gore, Gore’s gonna be like “ya, see ya.” Reality sets in, you know?

Companies the size of Gore operate on a scale that we mortals can scarcely comprehend.  Ryan’s comments strike me as both reasonable and most likely dead on the mark.

I’m still experimenting with DriDucks (both jacket and poncho).  Yeah, I know this is “old tech” but my experience with it is minimal.  Even if it fails in one way or another, as all previously technologies I have tried have, at least it was an inexpensive experiment.

I use a Sil rain skirt for warmer weather and a Montbell Versalite pant for colder.

I’ve reverted back to my late 60’s early 70’s Boy Scout “style” rain gear.  A poncho.

I have an MLD pro poncho, the no longer available DCF version.  I keep an elastic cord around my waist that contains the flapping.

It can snag, but was passable on my NPT thru hike, and never an issue on or off trail in the Sierra…yet.  (this past summer there was a stretch of willow choked bushwhack in Gardiner Basin that probably would have been a mess).

But in all I like the poncho for pack coverage and ventilation much better than any g-Tex or knockoff rain gear I’ve ever used.  (I found those miserable to hike in).

Gatewood Cape ftw

I suspect Ryan is correct that this isn’t a supply chain, but a profitability / customer demand issue. Few people are willing to pay 30% more for a jacket that lasts say 2 years.  That’s an order of magnitude more expensive per hour of use than a quality wp/b shell, not to mention the  durability limits the use case. Then there is the cost  of warranty replacements which would discourage manufacturers from ordering more material. I am on my 5th shakedry jacket, having purchased 2 and have 3 replaced under warranty (twice by arcteryx, once by gorewear)… though ironically these replacements have been due to zipper failures rather than leaking membranes.

As to Ryan’s point of people not addressing durability, that doesn’t seem to be the case to me. Most of the jackets were listed as “don’t use a backpack”. I believe most if not all the reviews have reported pinholes in the shoulders after a “typical” 1-2 calendar year use in the field. There is no question that compared to the materials used in most rain gear, shakedry is fragile, but I found it’s much more durable than the material used in the original rainshield o2 and driducks rain jackets.  That’s a bit of damning with faint praise.

I purchased sitka vapor SD jacket on close-out right after seeing the announcement, and will likely purchase a montbell shakedry jacket when I am in Japan if there are any stock left.

Given shakedry cost/use why bother?  The answer for me is comfort/performance. I can do a multi-hour zone 2 run in a continous heavy rain in 48F conditions with my shirt accumulated 1 gram of weight while I perspired / exhausted around 600 grams of water / hour and felt very comfortable.  For cycling, running, and backpacking on trails or in open country I will continue to use shakedry jackets until I wear out the jackets I have started to build a small stockpiled. I won’t take one through brush or wear it under a heavy or abrasive pack, but I am generally not doing those things.

Not sure what I will do when they wear out. Hopefully material sciences will product something even better. Likely I will give ponchos another try… conceptually they make a lot of sense, but each time I try to switch to a poncho I find myself back to using a wp/b jacket within a year or two.

Having worked for Gore in Consumer Fabrics for almost 30 years as an account manager for brands such as Patagonia, Mountain Hardwear, Cabela’s, Simms Fishing, etc., let me offer a different perspective to the comments as they refer to GORE-TEX products, especially Shakedry. First, Gore as a company is made up of three divisions – Medical, Industrial & Fabrics, with Fabrics being divided into two divisions, Consumer & Technical. In regard to Consumer Fabrics, this includes a vast array of garments, footwear & gloves, so when the ‘Gore-bashing’ refers to a specific product such as Shakedry, you are really focusing on a relatively small but important part of the products offered under the GORE-TEX brand umbrella. The overriding  principle that drives product development at Gore is ‘fit for use’, i.e., matching product performance attributes to the intended end user. In the case of Shakedry, it was developed specifically for ‘high aerobic sports’, e.g., running, cycling, etc. It was never intended for the backpacking market, especially for the more hard core end user, yet somehow Gore is blamed for a product’s failure in an end use for which it was never intended, all in the name of saving a few ounces. In essence, the real issue boils down to ‘unmet unrealistic expectations’ on the part of the user. The product that is designed and built for backpacking, guides, outdoor instructors, etc., is GORE-TEX PRO – yes, it costs more but it comes down to having the right tool for the job… and to clarify, Gore’s business decision to take Shakedry off of the market is based on supply chain issues during the pandemic years as well as consumer abuse of the product. Personally, it’s my favorite GORE-TEX product when used for it’s intended purpose – I am truly sad to see it go but as Pogo said many years ago, “we have met the enemy and he is us”…

I’ve got a Montbell Versalite and a ULA rain skirt. Seems to work okay. I like to also have an umbrella either as the only rain gear or along with the jacket and skirt. I’ve been in some rain where the only way I could even see where I was going was to keep the rain from hitting me in the face with an umbrella, but the rain was so intense that an umbrell alone wasn’t going to keep me dry. If the rain is light, the umbrella is usually the only thing I need to use.

Dan Madden – thank you for the “insider” info.  As usual, having more data and more viewpoints have a big effect on my view of the issue.

In essence, the real issue boils down to ‘unmet unrealistic expectations’ on the part of the user.

<snark>Well that certainly never happens in this community! </snark>

“The real reason Shakedry is disappearing
“While the Shakedry fabric has been great for its characteristics as a cycling jacket (waterproofness, breathability and lightweight), the membrane also contains PFOA [ed. Perfluorooctanoic acid] chemicals, and Gore is dedicated to being PFOA-free by 2025, so the future of Shakedry was always limited,” explained Steve Chapin, brand strategist at Castelli. “Gore is dedicating their engineering resources to next-generation sustainable fabrics so we can understand their decision to focus on the future.”

Supply chain issues undoubtedly play a part, but it appears that’s not the sole reason. Shakedry is going away because the world – not only Gore Fabrics – is moving away from fluorinated polymers. It’s not just affecting Shakedry, it’s affecting ski waxes, cosmetics, car tyres, smartphone screens, and almost every aspect of modern society.

The change is going to transform the outdoor industry as we know it. Today we are talking about Shakedry but every Gore membrane from the first to the last uses the same basic chemistry. Gore as a brand is being asked to fundamentally shift its product and it’s not just Gore. Durable water repellents are a key part of both membrane, and non-membrane fabrics and DWR uses fluorinated polymer chemistry as well. ”

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pfc-bans-are-going-to-change-the-face-of-all-waterproof-garments/

The comment “The real reason Shakedry is disappearing” is inaccurate… Essentially, Gore removed PFOA from it’s family of GORE-TEX products in 2013, i.e. “In alignment with the EPA PFOA Stewardship program, Gore worked closely with its suppliers to remove PFOA from its global fabrics supply chain. This was successfully completed in 2013.” – you can read the complete article here – https://www.gore.com/system/files/2022-03/Gore%20PTFE%20Facts%20March%202022%20for%20EFST%20Webpage.pdf

A few other bits of information:

> In alignment with Gore’s long term environmental and sustainability initiatives, a completely new WP/B technology called ePE (expanded Polyethylene) has just been introduced to the outdoor market for Fall’22 and beyond. In a nutshell, it is the next generation of GORE-TEX technology and is PFAS and PFC free while maintaining the same product performance and durability – you can find more info here – https://one.gore-tex.com/d/LhcTGTXEnkHn/new-gore-tex-products-with-epe-membrane#/introducing-new-gore-tex-products-with-innovative-expanded-polyethylene-epe-membrane-for-aw22

> The ePE technology will also be used in Gore’s new recycled BIONIC fabrics made from 100% recycled waste which Patagonia will be introducing in Fall’23, with other brands to follow shortly – more info here: https://one.gore-tex.com/d/LhcTGTXEnkHn/new-gore-tex-products-with-recycled-bionic-textile-1

> Yes, the transition away from fluorinated polymers will reshape more than just the outdoor industry – as noted, it will affect most every product you come into contact with on a daily basis, including the paper wrapper on your favorite fast food… and it’s happening relatively fast, e.g., in August ’22, the State of California passed legislation which will ban ANY product containing ‘forever chemicals’ in the PFAS family by the beginning of 2025… and it’s safe to assume other states will not be far behind.

I should also note that these comments and others are 100% mine and in no way represent nor speak for Gore – all of the information can be found online at gore.com and gore-tex.com.

nm

I love my Shakedry jackets and have used them exclusively for years, on a daily basis when trail running, cycling, hiking and backpacking.  I have had zero issues with mine but I’m not particularly hard on my gear, don’t live in it (i.e. Thruhike for months) and don’t ‘bushwhack’ -at least on purpose.  I think it’s excellent for its intended purpose keeping in mind its limitations.  I’ve been buying them whenever I find one on sale or used so I now have a quiver until something better comes out.