Wet weather gear fail

I should mention, or admit, also, that my tent pitch wasn’t all it could have been.

Got back yesterday after three days of rain on and off with 4 hours of continuous heavy downpour on one day: embrace the wet; nothing is truly waterproof for hiking in heavy rain, and if it is fully waterproof, you will be drenched on the inside from sweat. The key is to keep moving steadily to maintain body warmth, and have dry clothes to change into at the end of the day. Alan’s excellent article covers these principles in extenso here: https://backpackinglight.com/lightweight_guide_to_backpacking_in_sustained_rain/. Some can get away with the wind-rain-tarp-down combo, but I prefer a bit more enclosure to protect my down, so something like a Stratospire, X-Mid, or Ultamid.

It sounds like you did well, Eric, and hopefully you still had a good time. If you’re out in pouring rain for days, you probably are going to experience some wetness and discomfort.

Many tent materials will unavoidably sag, and you may need to re-tighten or adjust the pitch over time. It doesn’t mean that your tent is necessarily bad, but may need more attention under some conditions.

I don’t have direct experience with that membrane, but I have the sense that in the breathability-to-waterproof spectrum, Neoshell is more on the breathable side. That’s not to say it’s bad, but maybe not perfect for those conditions. Or maybe it would have been fine if you had brought a synthetic puffy or fleece instead of your down.

Many people with far more experience in very wet weather than me have said that rain gear is not going to keep you dry…but it needs to keep you warm.

The only time I have every managed to stay dry in days long wet weather is with a full 3L Goretex Pro parka and pants.  The temps were also in the 40-45 deg F range, so sweating was not much of an issue.  And that gear was heavy (by UL standards).  IMO, UL rain gear at best will help you manage your temperature and hopefully keep you from becoming soaked…but you will be “wet” to one degree or another.

IOW, choose UL rain gear for design/performance aspects other that simply “waterproofness”.

That’s right: in the downpour we experienced, our clothes were soaked through but we found comfort by adding rain gear with hood and balaclava, moving steadily, eating food, and eliminating stops to maintain warmth. Wet and warm is better than wet and cold and body heat is your friend in continuous rain.

Thanks, folks. That’s all very helpful.

A double wall tent is what I would recommend. DCF will still get you wet from the inside from condensation. DCF doesn’t absorb water but everything else you carry will. Steep walls in a shelter let water inside and out run down the sides….until the wind picks up.

Even fairly new 3 layer goretex wets out in wet brush. Forget about being dry while hiking. Unless someone has found a magic way to pound through wet brush and stay dry.

I have never used event in a bivvy would never plan to sleep in a waterproof breathable bivvy in a cool wet environment maybe event is has some magic in it but I doubt it. Sleeping bag will get soaked by condensation.

Having enough space in your shelter is key when things get tough/sloppy. Almost any shelter feels spacious enough when your things are dry and there’s no condensation, but then if you have wet clothes to store, condensation on the walls, saggy fabric hanging in etc…it gets cramped really fast.

Maybe a better rain jacket would help but water is always going to creep in eventually. Focus on being able to stay warm when this happens (e.g. a good wet weather midlayer like a 100wt fleece) and having a shelter that will let you recover at the end of the day. For the shelter, I’d make sure it’s big enough, probably doublewall although a big enough singlewall can work well, and doesn’t have wet weather vulnerabilities like inner first pitch, unprotected doorways, and saggy fabric.

+1 on a roomy shelter.  Never again will I suffer with a tiny tent.

I have had great success with Columbia Outdry rain jackets – which don’t need DWR. This has never wetted out for me. I also use Lightheart gear rain pants – non-breathable waterproof pants. On the Washington section of the PCT, these have worked very well for 5 day consecutive rain days…the Columbia Outdry jacket will not keep you warm like one of those Waterproof Breathable rain jackets which wet out. They are okay breathable. I also use Goretex waterproof sock liners from Rockywoods. In heavy rains where the trails are like running rivers, sometimes if you immerse your entire shoe, you will feel like your feet are wet….but when you remove your WP liner – your socks will be dry.

As Dan and others have said – you need a bigger shelter with great vestibule space to remove your rain gear and not get your floor wet. And not touch the walls. A tarp with a DCF bathtub (with Polycryo underneath the DCF bathtub to keep bathtub clean) works great for me as I can get under the tarp and unpack out of the rain. Carrying a pajama top is also good as that can be used as a hiking top if your hiking top is wet to be used the next day as you try to dry your hiking top.

Murali, have you done any extended bushwacking in wet brush in that Columbia outdry jacket? I’m thinking of giving one a try.

Nope…but, I think it should stand up to abuse if that is what you are asking. Some of these jackets are pretty heavy. The one I have is 7.25 oz which is not bad at all. The one I took to Washington was almost 15 oz heavy duty one. They don’t give weights – so you will have to buy, weigh or call them and sometimes they don’t have the details.

As others have mentioned:

• a roomier shelter. You need to be able to sit up and get dressed, ideally cook, without touching the fabric. Your bag must not touch the walls.
• A lightweight insulation layer for under the rain jacket, synthetic high loft can work, but breathes poorly and dries slow, so fleece or Polartec Alpha is better.  At these thicknesses PT Alpha is barely any heavier than a down jacket anyway, breathes extremely well, is comfortable next to skin and dries super fast.
• bringing a set of dedicated sleep clothes.
• making sure all your gear is well washed and treated for water repellency

A small square of highly absorbent pack towel is a game-changer in camp, (wipe down everything, squeeze outside) .4oz.

Umbrellas are great depending on environment/severity of bushwhacking ~6oz

A large enough kitchen tarp for groups allows for lots of airflow and a covered place to be raingear free, ~12-32oz depending…

Seems to me it was not so much a ‘gear failure’ as not taking the right gear for the climate… right tool for the job…

Yes, DWD D, I should have said “gear selection failure”; that’s much more accurate.

Thanks everyone for the further wisdom shared. The trip was well worth taking although the fun was mostly Type II. I was confident that I wasn’t putting myself in significant danger but there was a chance of discomfort, and that’s how it ended up.

” I should have said “gear selection failure”

Don’t know the North Cascades (too far to drive), but if the weather is both cold and wet,  or hypothermic, even the best gear can be a problem.  But there is no reason to add to it by thrashing through heavy bushes, branches and other flora, as mentioned above.  Plan to hike in an area with cleared and maintained trails below timberline.

After getting wet with jackets that were junk, waited for a sale and got a Patagonia pullover that was pretty good; but putting on and taking off a pullover in a downpour is not a dry exercise.  So after hunting for a couple years, found a $350 M-10 jacket for under $200 on sale.  It has never let me down, even in combo hike/paddle trips, sitting in a kayak in the pouring rain all day.

Also key is a good GTX bucket hat under the jacket hood, so you can see where you’re going.  For my lower half, just wear ‘baggies,’ a form of short bathing suit.  Then GTX gaiters were worn over the sox and mids to keep the water out.

When it gets colder, but still rainy, a grid fleece sweater goes under the jacket, and a fleece watchcap under the hat.  With all that, I’ve never gotten hypothermic; but have seen many hikers who did, and it can be a killer.  So it may be best to stop early and get into a tent, as was already suggested.

And that raises the need for a tent that pitches dry inside and stays that way with a dry entry and exit, and a double wall and good ventilation to avoid condensation, which can destroy heat retention. We now have silpoly, so there is no need to deal with a sodden tent.  There are more and more silpoly tents coming on the market, so pick a good one.  And no need to spend gazillions for a DCF tent whose durability is problematic. Like some of the above posters, the tent must also be spacious because much time may be spent in it, especially in the East, where it can rain for days on end.

Should mention that some folks overheat easily; but I take it easy and am lucky to remain dry.  So there is hope, but a lot of care and preparation does have to go into it.  Good luck!

Regarding the Columbia Outdry jacket….I have the 7 ounce jacket.  I wore it once and only once.  It poured on me for an hour and 30 minutes here in the Seattle area.  I was soaked to the bone.  I wish I’d brought my umbrella with me.  That has always kept me dry.

I recently returned from a week in the Sierra with rain 3of the first 5 days, either all day, all night, or both.   My primary shelter is an MLD Grace Tarp Duo, DCF.   I really appreciated the headroom and space underneath using a flying A-frame pitch.

My primary rain gear is an MLD DCF Pro-Poncho.  Great for trails & open x-country, and with a “waistband” suitable for windy conditions.

Aside from wet feet, I was quite dry and comfortable.  When it got chilly I layered with a 100wt fleece pullover.

Had my route been reversed, the poncho likely wouldn’t have performed as the route into and through Gardiner Basin was brushy/bush whacky.   But for shelter, the tarp was awesome and I stayed “dry and tight” despite hiking for hours in the rain and setting up the tarp in the rain.

@Steve Thompson – did you use a bivy with the tarp? What was your sleep system?

I have an MLD super light bivy but when under the tarp just used it as a ground cloth.   I also use a neoair large (which takes up too much space inside the bivy topped with a WM Ultralight long.

I think in the future I’ll forego the bivy in lieu of a polychro ground sheet.  Even with the wind blowing during two of the wet nights the tarp coverage was sufficient to prevent spray and splashing from getting my sleeping bag wet.

Seems every point (3L GoreTex, Columbia Outdry) has a counterpoint.  Thinking manufacturer prowess (= Patagonia) may be the key. Heard their Torrentshell isn’t as weather worthy as their pricier shells though.