Water Container for Dry Camps

As a Ranger I’ve generally seen two methods. One method is just to have each member of the crew have the capacity to carry 1 extra liter of water. This is usually done with either a Nalgene that stays empty except when needed or something like a Platypus 1L bottle that can be easily rolled up and stored when not needed. This way the weight of the extra water is spread evenly among the crew however carrying an extra empty Nalgene is not needed, in my opinion, so an extra Platypus-style bottle would work best.

The other method is something like the MSR Dromedary. This is the method I think is better as the weight is concentrated to one person however it can easily be traded off and the crew will know for sure if their extra water is filled all the way. With the other method is might be a little bit more difficult to know that every single bottle is filled when leaving the last water source and also locating the bottles to be used by the group once in camp. The MSR Dromedary might be a little heavy for some at 6.3 ounces for the 2L size however it is incredibly tough. The lightest water carrier I’ve seen is the plain and featureless Platypus Platy Bottle which is only 1.3 ounces for 2L however it doesn’t have a handle so it would be more difficult to carry. The Platypus Platy Water Tank is only 2.7 ounces and features both a carrying handle and a large, zip opening for easy filling.

@William
I hear what you are saying but the “Philmont Summer Packing List” has listed under “Provided By Crew” – Water containers 2.5 gallon 2-3 collapsible. This has been on the gear list since at least 2002.

I’d hate to be the person or persons carrying such a beast (20+ pounds).

Once we knew if our trek had a dry camp, we carried about 6 or 7 4-liter collapsible water bags. We never filled them completely, just about 3 liters worth. Collapsible, light (2-3 ounces), easily managed. We found them on eBay.

Nalgene has become synonymous with “hard plastic water bottle”. They also make “Cantene” wide-mouth collapsible bottles, 32 to 96 ounces.

An Amazon search gets you this.  I got a few 1-gallon versions a while ago to cache for a desert hike, then never needed them.  I figured they would be better than an old milk jug.

But, just dividing a bunch of 3L hydration bladders amongst the scouts sounds like the way to go.

@dzierzak

I agree with you that those water containers are truly beasts. In my opinion (this doesn’t reflect the official opinion of Philmont Scout Ranch) those containers are unnecessarily too big. I believe the overall capacity of the crew to carry that much water isn’t fully needed either.

In my opinion a crew should really need only 2-3 gallons of water storage beyond the 4+ liters of water listed for each individual. This way a crew could leave the final water source with 4 liters of water per person for drinking or possible use by the group in camp and between 7.5 and 11.3 liters of water for use by the group. Especially with such a wet year last year there weren’t that many dry camps (even Shaeffers’ Pass had water). So you really only need the capacity of water to hike from the last water source to camp and then out of camp to the next water source the next morning. So really your only water needs should be drinking, cooking, and cleaning. If you’re at a dry camp I believe you shouldn’t have a fire (if regulations allow it) to avoid spending precious water putting it out (something you MUST do if you have a fire).

My suggestion is talk to your Ranger (as with anything you’re unsure of) about how much you need based on the conditions and where you will be going. Also use the Water Source Board (can’t recall if that’s the name) in Logistics to see if you have any dry camps. Generally they will be marked on the Crew Leader Copy and on the Itinerary when you select it however conditions may change before you arrive so there may be more or fewer dry camps than you were originally told.

We carry a few 1.25 L rocket-base fizzy drink bottles. Empty weight is 36 g with cap. Totally leakproof and impact resistant – I tried throwing a full one up in the air over sheet rock many times.
Three of these bottles is definitely more than enough for dinner and breakfast for the TWO of us for a dry camp.

Water was many hundreds of (vertical) meters below us at this camp, just a few days ago.

Cheers

Definitely plan to be able to carry the water and distribute it among the crew.  But you may be able to limit the amount you need to carry to a dry camp.

There’s no rule that the you must cook the evening meal in the evening.  I haven’t been there since 2010 but at that time all the lunches and almost all the breakfasts were no cook.  If you are passing through a watered camp during the day you may be able to stop, cook, eat and clean up there and use that day’s lunch as the evening meal.  Ask about that at HQ before hitting the trail.

We have always taken an extra 2 litter platypus bottle per person. Store very small and are very light. Can be filled if needed but usually only filled 1/2 to 3/4.

As a Scouter who has never been on a Philmont trek but who is serving as Lead Advisor for a Crew going this year, I attended the Philmont Advisor Skills School.  The Chief Ranger, Eric Martinez, advised that he is fond of the MSR Dromedaries and suggested 2x of the 10-liter “baby seals” per Crew.  That sounded a bit unwieldy for carrying the reportedly 1-2 miles typical from the water source to the Dry Camps (5 miles for Tooth Ridge).

Our Troop has had mixed results with the 6L Platy WaterTanks.  Some inexpensive accordian 2.5gal containers have proven pretty worthless on a recent shakedown.  I have asked that all members of our 12-person Crew take 4-5L personal capacity, and I have purchased 4x of the MSR DromLite bags.  We shall see how those work.  I would probably have opted for the regular MSR Dromedary bags due to the webbing and more Scout-resistant construction, but they are somewhat more expensive.

I’m mightily puzzled:

Is there a particular reason that the majority of the replies here gravitate around Philmont and crew-sized endeavor?

The original post does not imply any particular area (other the generic “dry camp”), nor the size of the hiking party…

My solution for dry camps, of which I have had plenty even in the Eastern US, is an extra 2L Evernew soft bottle, which brings the total capacity of water I can carry to 4 or 4.5L (depends on the rest of my setup).

IVOK – I posted this in the Philmont forum and assumed everyone would understand I was asking specifically about dry camps at Philmont.

Jamie.

@ Jamie

There is a lot of good advice above. To be somewhat repetitive but also to raise some new points.

You can get a good estimation of how much water your crew needs for meals in the shake down hikes, especially if you order some of last years’ Philmont meals to practice with. What changes at Philmont is personal needs of each crew member.

You can have the cooked dinner at the last camp with a water source on your way to the dry camp and eat the lunch for dinner at your dry camp. This conserves water since the dinner meal needs more water than the lunch meal. AFAIK Philmont policy still allows you if you want, to skip having breakfast at your dry camp and have breakfast at the next camp with a water source.

The MSR dromolite bags are heavier than their Platypus 2 and 3 liter equivalents.  I think the suggestion above to have each Scout carry *group* water storage of 1 to 2 liters is the right advice. To ask one person to carry 12 liters (26.4 lbs) is a bit extreme in my opinion.  For each camp, my crew had a “water quartermaster” to make sure all the water bottles were filled. I also would recommend against attaching water bottles to the outside of any pack. They should as close to the center of gravity as possible. Many of the new Osprey packs have a sleeve accessible from the outside now expressly for this purpose.

My crew found the water board to be not 100% reliable. So there might be times when the crew has to hike further than planned to fetch water.

You can attach some 3 mm cord to the DromoLites and the Platypus 2L and 3L platypuses. Note that the larger platypuses with the zip lock closures and handles tend to open when stuffed too tightly in a pack. If you want larger but lightweight water bottles, check out the Nalgene water carriers.  If you happen to choose a Platypus gravity filtration system you will have a 4 liter container that locks tightly.

Go to Sonic Drive In and get one of their gallon tea bags!  They are basically the same as a Platapus storage bag and they come with some tea! Or do some sweet talking to the manager and I bet he will give you a few.  I’m having each tent pair carry one, I know that’ll be way too many, but, it won’t hurt a thing to have some extra water ready for morning.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Great forum for info!

Nate – I never knew Sonic had 1 gallon tea bags. I’ll have to try that out!

Jamie.

Those gallon tea bags are a great idea!

Just one possible gotcha … some (most??) Philmont rangers will classify containers previously used for food/beverages as smellable (my experience from just two treks).   You’ll not likely want to hoist a gallon of water up in a bear bag.

So try to get never used bags.

For that very same reason I encouraged our crews members to clearly mark one of their 1 liter water containers as smellable and always use that one and only that one when mixing gatoraid crystals with water.

The plan for our trek this summer is to take four hard (Smart Water bottles) liters each,with the capacity for an additional 3 liters per person.  That can be done, depending on each hiker’s preference, pack capacity and financial means, by carrying a 3 liter bladder in their pack, OR a small collapsible 3-liter jug: http://www.gearbest.com/survival-emergency-gear/pp_198984.html .  At under 3 ounces, with the ability to collapse it down until needed, our 9 person (including 3 adults) crew will carry an additional 27 (7.13 gallons) liters to accommodate a dry camp.  This fulfills the Philmont recommended additional quantity of water for the dry camp (2-3 containers at about 21 lbs each) with no additional effort required.  Even if they cannot fit the full jug into their pack, a person only totes about 6.7 lbs in their hand.

My local Goodwill stores sold these Platy-like bladders for $1.79 new. I don’t think they hold a full 2.8 liters, but they are tough enough. I filled one and stomped it a few times with no problems. I’ll take a look and see if they still carry them.

I’ve always thought the Crystal Geyser 1 gallon water jugs were a good deal. We use them for car camping:

Re: 1gallon Sonic Tea “bags.”  I checked with one of our local Sonics and they claimed to not know what I was talking about.  At another (different town, where I work), they had them.  Sold me two without the tea (i.e. no “smellable” issue) for $1.50 ($.75 each) plus tax.  We used them this past weekend on a shakedown hike without any issue.

I found the gallon size to be helpful in that it was easier to chemically treat water in bulk (two tabs per one gallon).  It also divides the weight more evenly.  I plan on getting a few more and we will carry one bag per two scouts for a total of 5 gallons additional water capacity.  Not that we will ever need that much, but as said above, it makes treating water in bulk a lot easier.  Also, easier to carry water back to camp if it is any distance from the well/tank

Several weeks ago we did a shakedown hike and believed we were going into a dry campsite. We filled a 6 liter msr bag at the last water source before our campsite. The strongest scout volunteered to carry it. He lasted about a mile. Then switching that 13 pound baby from person to person became a pain. The crew has decided that going with each member carrying an extra 2liter platypus the better option.

In addition to weight distribution, I like the redundancy of everyone carrying an extra 2 liter Platy. It seems like such a simple solution to the problem. There will still be plenty of opportunity for teamwork sharing crew gear.

Just so everyone knows after using the tea bag from sonic this summer….It work great!  We had everyone carry one bag…never filled all of them…just had extras….In fact, we never had one fail other than the carry handles.  As far a them being a smellable, buy a gallon of tea and leave out the tea, still WAY cheaper than a Platapus and just as good.   Hint: before you go, figure out how many purification tabs you will need.

This past summer we used the 48oz wide mouth Nalgene Cantene water bag. We bought one for each person on the trail.  They worked great and distributed the load for the dry camps.  Of which we had to many!

Late to the party. My son and I  used four 32 oz Aquafina Water bottles and a 32 oz gatorade bottle (visually and distinct by feel) relative to the other bottles. Between  some meal shifting where  we cooked dinner  for lunch  before having lunch for dinner in a dry camp and having my  2 1l platy bottles we had it covered. If I was doing it again, everybody would have the 2l  10.00 clear platy water carriers and drive on. We would have a lot of extra capacity and redundancy in case of water vessel failure.

@ David

So you and your son shared 5 quarts (or liters) of storage or each had 5 liters of storage?

@ Jason Yes, I too thought one dry camp was one too many but the itinerary the Scouts chose had the shooting opportunities they wanted (and the hot showers the Scouters wanted).

I’m going to look into those Sonic bags, looks like a great deal and inexpensive.

Without cracking open the “alternate” methods to cook at Philmont, assuming you do it their way you can guarantee to burn through 1L of water per person for each dinner, between cooking and cleaning.

With that, we require everyone to have the capacity to carry 4L of water per person. Generally, we have 2 liters on us and are able to refill frequently enough to sustain drinking as much as you want. *Each trek is different and the water sources will vary each season. Your crew leader and advisor will get the lowdown at logistics on day 1 and they’ll cover all of your potential water sources and their reliability so you’ll know before stepping onto the trail which days you need to carry more or less water… but having the capacity (empty containers) is absolutely needed.

Most of our guys carry one 1L hard bottle/wide mouth for “smellable” drinks/mixes and will carry 1 additional 1L bottle for daily use (scribed with measuring lines for liquid measurements). In addition we carry the Nalgene Cantene soft side collapsible containers. Other than a few dry camps these are typically used in camp to give us extra water for cooking, cleaning, etc – and to refill everyone before making trail first thing in the AM – makes for one big trip for water each camp instead of frequent trips and onsie-twosie trips to refill bottles and avoids delays making trail in the morning.

Mt Phillips Camp was probably our driest/longest stretch without water for our trek. Our crew elected to cook the dinner for breakfast and have breakfast for dinner so we ended up leaving that morning to tackle Phillips with only 3 liters of water and it worked out really well with no rationing or extra weight.