Warmth upgrade from down quilt

I had almost the same situation, I have the same EE as you and I’m the same height. I would get cold in the low 40s or high 30s with medium-weight base layers and a Hoodlum on (in a Tarptent on a windy night, I forget what sleeping pad but had a good R-value). Mostly the drafts would be tricky as I like to toss and turn even using the straps to keep things in place.

I was also having cold spots where the down would fall down away from my shoulder & hips though, too during the night. (I would gently shake the quilt before bed to move down around, etc.)

First, I mailed the quilt to EE and had them add overfill. Now I can sleep to 32 in most cases with baselayers & the hoodlum. The overfill stopped the issue of cold spots. However the quilt is almost too warm in the height of summer in New Mexico but it’s a quilt so it’s not hard to vent it. I’ve slept in it multiple times to freezing now

We also bought some EE Apex quilts to layer over in the winter and also to use during summer. I found I really like the wide quilts. When it’s time to replace my EE down quilt, I’ll probably upgrade to a wide. I’m not sure if I’d stick with another 20 degree with overfill or go for a different temp rating. The zippered quilts look tempting too. Could be nice to zip it up when using it down to its lower limit.

I have had the same issue with two EE quilts, a 30 degree Enigma and 20 degree Revelation X. I also roll around a good deal and that is at the root of the problem as far as I can tell. Since I purchased the quilts in 2013-14 they have upgraded their pad straps to elastic ones. They also changed the connectors on the straps in 2015 from two female clips on the straps to one female and one male. They sell replacement straps for $3 shipping included for a set of two, one loop strap and one flat strap. Make sure to order the right set of straps based on when you bought your quilt and what kind of connectors you have. Check out the instructional video on pads and straps on their website as it’s extremely useful. If you roll around a lot you might consider getting two sets of straps and use two loop straps instead one loop and one flat. That way the quilt won’t shift when you roll around and leave an air gap. Make sure the straps on the connectors are moved in towards the center so there is less of a gap between the two sides of the quilt under you on the loop strap and tighten the flat strap to reduce the gap in the middle. If you use two loop straps you will have a bit less room to roll but you virtually cannot get an air gap unless you are too portly for the regular width size which doesn’t seem to be the case. Your quilt is probably quite wide enough given the info you provided. There is another issue to consider which is if you scrunch down to distance between the middle attachment points and upper attachment points can decrease and that can create an air gap. You want the length of the quilt to be taut or otherwise an air gap can occur. By all means check out the video, get new straps, and play around with at home a lot before ordering a new quilt.

Phillip,

If you are only using an X-lite, I’d HIGHLY recommend increasing the R Value underneath. Even if you believe drafts are an ongoing issue, I suspect that if you were initially warmer to begin with, any slight draft would not impact you as much. And yes, a wider pad would probably help if you toss & turn, but I believe your lack of adequate ground insulation is the biggest issue.

Even an 1/8″ CCF pad on top of the X-lite can make a big difference on your overall comfort. I’ve been using that precise system with a 40 degree EE Egnima, and have been able to easily push that system into the 30’s with a down jacket & Cap 4 hoodie.

( Even though T-rest lists the R value of the X-lite at 3.2, that’s under ideal circumstances and no where reflects actual field use. On EE’s website, they base their quilt ratings on an R-4 pad at a minimum.)

Good luck,

Matt

I have used my Revelation once at 31º.  It was a wonderful rain/sleet mixture, with thunderstorms.  I was warm for a good portion of the night.  I used a wide REI flash pad.  I had socks, a knit hat and long-johns. I am not a thin man, so I was concerned about drafts with the regular width quilt.  I followed the video and it worked out well.  I bought replacement straps.  I ran the straight strap under the pad and ran the loop strap as designed.  I think that the wide pad helped pull the straps tighter to the pad.

I did get cold at night, but that was because a puddle formed underneath the pad and it kept pulling heat away from my body at the weld points in the pad.

I know this isn’t the MYOG forum, but a simple, light draft solution may be to sew a flap of fabric down each side of the quilt. Maybe 6″ in width? I think this is a feature of the Ray Way design, for similar reasons. This would be a relatively cheap modification that any repair shop could do.

Phillip, Drafts are common with quilts and almost nonexistent with bags except at low temps (<32F.) Before purchasing my 20F Long/Wide quilt from EE, I spent about 20 years using my bag as a quilt mostly. When temps dipped, I zipped it up and was fine almost always. A couple nights I was cold all night even with all my cloths on, but the temp dipped down into the low twenty’s and I only was set up for 35F. I got a long to supply some head covering (I am getting fairly bald) and a wide to prevent all the drafts.

Anyway, a couple weeks ago I was out in the ADKs when the temps dropped to 24F.
I was fine, here’s why:
1) I use a 5 layer NightLite pad as a pack frame in a GG MiniPosa. I put this pad over my Xlite.
2) I use a larger knitted cap as a balaclava. I pull this over my head and face at <32F.
3) I use loose, knee high socks as sleeping socks. If I get warm, I can roll them down.
4) I changed out of my hiking cloths, rinsed them near the local stream, and hung them. But, I wore two pair of long-johns: light and medium.
5) I have a down jacket, but I didn’t need it till I got up at around 0100 to take a leak. Then I got a bit cold walking away from camp and put it on. There was a heavy frost by then, my thermometer said 27F.
6) I am a side sleeper, so, I rolled part way onto my stomach and pulled the quilt around my back, then rolled nearly onto my back and pulled the quilt around my front and finally rolled back on my side. The quilt was wide enough to cover me completely.
7) I pulled the extra length over my head with just an air-hole left for breathing.

I went back to sleep and slept till about 0430 (about false dawn) and got up and got a fire going while I prepared breakfast. My thermometer read 24F when I woke. So, I think a long/wide will cover your needs. I have a Revalation so I can open it up when it gets warmer, but I pay with extra weight for versatility all summer. Only spring and fall do I actually need the long/wide.

Anyway, I think you have the correct temperature rating, but you could use the long and wide version. As others have said, a CCF pad on top of the Xlite will add about 3-5F to your sleep system. But, at the additional weight, you could also go for a good bag rated at 20F (WM 20F Ultralight is 29oz vs 20F Revelation is 22.5 + 2oz head cap + 5oz pad.) Note that at lower temps bags do better and are more thermally efficient than quilts, sort’a like mittens vs gloves. (I have a bag, Marmot SS #0 for colder temps.) Quilts are great at >32F. But break even or start hurting weights at below that. Yeah, it can be done, just not as efficiently.

Personally, I would recommend selling the quilt you have and replacing it with the long/wide version paying a couple ounces for the extended versatility of occasional nights down to 20F. Or, if you plan on earlier and later trips out, get a bag to cover that temperature range for regular use, relying on an extra set of long-johns and jacket to cover an extra 10F in temperature range (ie down to 10F.) Reserve the quilt for 30F and above, ie summer only use.

I have basically eliminated air gaps with my 30 degree EE Enigma by using two elastic loop straps with the connectors set in 3″ from the sides of my reg size Neo-Air pad, but it requires practice and experimentation. That set-up will work well in the summer in the Sierra for me with a good balaclava, warm socks, long underwear, and the top of the quilt cinched up. I have plenty of room to move. I have not gotten down into the low 20s as some other posters have so the issue of swapping out or supplementing your pad system is definitely a consideration. That said, the air gap issue is critical for quilt use, but in my experience dopes not require a wider quilt to solve the problem. If you don’t have the air gaps eliminated it will cost you 10-15 degrees in warmth at least. Until I got this technique fine tuned I was not warm enough using wide 20 degree Revelation in the same conditions.

One thing that I did not mention was bleeding heat from an inflatable pad. Anytime you do not fully cover your pad with the quilt, the exposed area will bleed heat to the outside. I got stuck out with the temps dipping down to about 11F one night. A fellow hiker warned me about the large change (from about 35F to 11F.) I took my NeoAir Original and inflated it IN my sleeping bag. Then I crawled in. I usually sleep cold but I actually slept most of the night (till around 0200 or so) and had to relieve myself. It took about 5 minutes to warm up again, but I slept till after 0600. The bag had insulated the pad. Again, the bag is oversized since I usually stuff my jacket and any extra clothing in with me. It saves putting on ice cold clothing in the morning.

Anyway, edge bleeding with most inflatables seems to account for 5-10F degrees at 10-20F, IFF your quilt does not cover your pad. I am speaking only of inflatables not designed for cold conditions here. I haven’t tried the Xtherm or other insulated pads. I believe this was discussed 3-4 years ago, here.