Vapor Barriers?

[Brett Cooper]

I am planning on giving some oven bags for socks a go this weekend, expected temps are 1 to 14. If I use them hiking/slowshoeing in to keep my feet warm and insulation dry, what do I do with them overnight? Do you just use a new set on day 2 or keep them on in camp? I assume they will be wet after hiking, should I wipe them off and try to dry them overnight, how? Any tips or tricks?

[Iago Vazquez]

My experience is limited, as most of my winter overnighters are just one night, sometimes two. So for extended trips, I may be doing something wrong. I just reverse them and shove them in my sleeping bag. I don’t wear them to sleep, as I want my feed to dry and breathe overnight in a new pair of socks. I don’t leave them outside the sleeping bag, as I am afraid they’ll be frozen in the morning. Also, I take backup(s), which also go in the sleeping bag.

[Hiking Malto]

I wasn’t able to get oven bags to last more than a few miles.  I ended up sewing booties out of either silnylon or Coated nylon.  Not completely waterproof due to seams but it greatly increases warmth and minimizes water transfer. Works great at night at VPL.  The material holds little water.

[Paul McLaughlin]

let them freeze; knock off the ice. now they are dry. They are so thin that the thermal mass is tiny, so warming them back up before you put them on should just take a couple minutes inside your jacket.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

For a few years I’ve been doing “missionary work” proselytizing for 3mm neoprene divers sox as the best VBLs available. Neoprene VBLs not only prevent sweat moisture from ruining your boots’ insulation by wetting it out but they are far warmer than the best wool socks.

US Divers brand is the best I’ve found. they have shaped Right and Left foot sox and are factory seam sealed, saving you the trouble.

They should be worn over a pair of thin polyester or polypropylene liner socks.

VBL Camping Ritual:

1. Remove boot insulating liner and put in foot of  sleeping bag

2. remove VBL divers sox, turn inside-out and dry in tent for 15 -20 minutes

3. Remove wet liner socks and put n ZipLoc bag, closing tightly

4. put on clean liner socks and heavy wool sleeping socks

5. put VBL divers sox in foot of sleeping bag

6. For boots with non-removable insulation clean them as well as possible, place in a stuff sack and put in the foot of your sleeping bag.

Now you will have warm feet in the morning. No more painfully cold toes as you try to make breakfast.

BTW, You should “telescope” the tops of your outer boots together and place in tent vestibule. This keeps blowing snow out of your boots.

 

 

 

[Brett Cooper]

Thanks for the responses. It is just a short overnight so hopefully no durability issues, I will bring an extra set. Dan I think I like that approah, seems pretty easy.

Eric, thanks for the “gospel of Vapor Barriers”, if this trips wirks out I will look into buying some socks.

[Bri W]

Just to preface, I run EXTREMELY cold and never thought I’d get to do any winter backpacking, but I was recommended on this forum to try out VBL apparel, and now I can backpack all year long! So this has been my experience so far…

Initially I started off with a 0° Cuben quilt but sold that because it was too big, so I then moved to apparrel. I’ve been using RBH designs VBL apparel for the past few weeks backpacking/snowshoeing in the snow in Southern Oregon as well as backpacking along the central coast California in temps ranging from high 30s° to 70°s. I have a Lightning Bug (L.B.) suit, the Ultralight mitts, the Crown Joule Hat, and the Hi-Rise socks. With this set-up, heavyweight baselayers, winter sleeping pads (total R value: 9.8), and my summer down pants for camp, I was able to use my summer 30° Nunatak half quilt and hoodie in the snow down to 19°F. The snowshoeing trip was two days and one night, and I didn’t take my socks off once. I included Injinji toe sock liners underneath, and thick Smartwool socks over the VBL socks while sleeping. I found while hiking I didn’t need the heavy duty over-socks, mostly because my feet were already warmed up and protected from the wetness with overbooties. My feet never felt clammy or moist while wearing them. However, when I removed the socks the next day when we got back to the car, the liner socks and the VBL socks did feel slightly moist. The VBL socks dried within a few minutes though. Under the mitts I wore Brynje mitts as liners, and that set-up was WONDERFUL for my freezing fingers. I slept with the mitts and never woke up feeling clammy.

Last week in the warmer temps, I just brought the L.B. suit (pants and jacket). I never took my jacket off, even during the climbs and even in the short section of sunny, hot weather. When I started to get hot, I would vent the pit zips, pockets, and arm vents. I was comfortable the entire hike. I only wore the pants to bed. I did not expect a windchill or rain on this hike, so I slept a little cold with a short sleeping pad and my summer baselayers, but I did notice once that I was freezing on one spot on my legs until I realized my L.B. pants were unzipped/vented on that side. Once I zipped it back up, I was warm again. I think that without the suit, I would’ve been miserably cold at night. It provides okay wind protection. At one point I decided to try wearing my Montbell wind jacket underneath the L.B. jacket during a particular windy section, and I was much warmer, but swear a lot more quickly. I also hadn’t brought a rain jacket, just a poncho. I wore the L.B. jacket underneath the poncho and, although I haven’t seam sealed the jacket yet, it protected my arms from the rain quite nicely.

So in summary, the VBL apparel really make a huge difference for me. With the suit, I just vent if I’m starting to feel too warm. With the socks, I noticed mild moisture, but only when I’d taken the socks off and felt them with my hands. I never felt clammy with the gloves or hat. I will be taking this entire system to Crater Lake in January with a 0° bag for multiple. nights. The lowest Temps I have seen there lately is -2°. By summer time, I hope to write a more thorough review of my VBL experience in warm and extremely cold temps.

[JayC]

I would second the suggestion of neoprene socks as vb – i use them all the time winter biking, and they keep your footwear dry (and thus warm).

I use the thinner nrs branded ones.  Bags work fine too, they are just hard to keep intact.

[Brett Cooper]

The oven bags worked out. My feet stayed toasty snowshoeing at 20 degrees. My footwear was a pair of Funtoes liner socks then oven bags with a fleece insulation sock over that all inside my NEOS Villagers.  The bags did a great job of keeping the moisture contained and I was able to swap out for some down socks in camp inside the NEOS.  Thanks for the help, I will be looking at some neoprene socks to try for the next trip.

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