Ultralight synthetic sleeping system (vegan)?

Not sure what ‘vegan’ has to do with your sleeping bag… ya gonna eat it? … sorry… maybe a bad joke…

Cold feet… some people are gonna have cold feet even in the correct rated sleeping bag… circulation varies from person to person… I use down booties… they’re wonderful !

One of my backpacking buddies is a vegan – except when it comes to sleeping bags as he still uses down and he says he’d buy down again.  His argument is that down bags are warmer, pack smaller, and last a lot longer than synthetic bags and thus he claims better for the environment.   Of course he also says some vegans would chastise him telling him he’s not a real vegan if they knew his stance.  I don’t know as I’m not vegan and not privy to those things.

I will say that down is warmer and compresses quite a bit better than even the best synthetics, so if you want a synthetic system I think you’ll just have to accept some extra volume.  I believe Climashield Apex is the best synthetic currently on the market, so something with Apex and a 10D or even 7D shell is going to be your best bet.

If buying second hand is acceptable as a vegan, I’d look for a high end used down bag or quilt as you stated as if properly taken care of it should last for a long time.  I’ve got one down sleeping bag, and two down quilts, and one synthetic quilt – all are at least 14 years old.  My down gear all looks pretty good – two are as good as new, one – that gets the most use – is starting to show a little age.  My synthetic quilt, despite not getting used as much as the two down quilts, is shot.  It’s Polarguard Delta and is only good for 50-60*F nights now.  The Pertex shell is still in great shape.

Though I still like natural fibers like wool, and a few things I think are better in leather than synthetic leather, we’ve gotten to the point where our synthetics are as good of performers as natural materials in a lot of areas but sleeping bags aren’t one.   Whichever way you decide to go, good luck in your search and post what you decide as it may help someone else in the future.

synthetic is made from petroleum which is mostly plant based, a few animals, so it’s mostly vegan.  But plants are partly animal based – the animals die, decompose, become the soil that creates plants so how far do you want to go…

I can see how someone would consider down cruel to geese.  Mostly they’re used for meat and the down is a byproduct (?)  The down would be thrown out otherwise.  Rationalization?

If you were into sustainability and reducing global warming I bet down would be better.  Especially because the lifetime of down is much greater.

If you want a 20F synthetic bag it would be heavy and very bulky when packed compared to down.  If you compress the synthetic for packing so it’s not quite as bulky it decreases it’s lifetime which makes it’s environmental effect worse.

Cold feet? Wear bedsocks and a beanie and you might not need a warmer bag. Try Alpha Direct 90 camp socks from FarPointe or one of the other Alpha cottage manufacturers. Or try Polartec 200 boot socks from Amazon. Brand name is 281.z. Made in Ukraine!

I also very much suffer from cold feet, and have found that a little insulation there does more for me than any other part of my body, so would think that the booties and perhaps puffy trousers solution might work well.

Even on just a cold night in the house in my own bed, I can pull on a tshirt or a pair of baselayer bottoms and it’ll help somewhat, but as soon as I pull on a pair of socks it totally fixes the problem.

Similarly when out in the tent, I’ll usually have on a set of base layers while I’m sleeping and maybe a puffy jacket, but what really makes the difference is the Rab Hot Socks I bought, synthetically insulated booties similar to the EE ones you mentioned. For me, just having these on alone means I can get away with a much lighter duvet or seeping bag than I otherwise would, so these and perhaps the trousers might make your sleeping bag work.

just another data point

I had cold feet so used insulated socks which worked good

More recently I’ve had more insulation around my torso and haven’t needed insulated socks.  If you have marginal insulation your body will shift blood flow from your feet which makes you cold.  Might be heavier though.

I’m allergic to down and looked into over a dozen synth options, there isn’t much guidance out there.

A quilt will pack down smaller and weigh less than a bag of the same materials, but most all cold rated quilts use Apex, which is bulky.  EE’s Revelation Apex 20F wide (to avoid side drafts) is 31.8oz, 12.5L packed (pretty big).

Cedar Ridge Outdoors made a Top Quilt using UP insulation that packed much smaller than Apex, but it was smaller than EE, and it looks like they’re out of business.  The other synth quilts (such as MLD, Viam) use Apex.

The lightest packable 20F synth bag I could find is the Marmot Trestles Elite Eco, 2lb 6oz, 8.4L.  Comfort rating is 32F.  I’m an average sleeper & its been just OK @ 23F (in a Durston Xmid 2P) on a Nemo Tensor Insulated in base layers, hiking pants, thick socks, hat, buff and a fleece. A colder pad may not have worked out.

Something to watch out for is that many synth bags reduce weight by making shoulder or hip width narrow, like the Mountain Hardware Lamina Eco AF 15F and RAB Solar Ultra 3 or that BA quilt.  They’re too narrow for my shoulders.

Many synth bags (like Marmot) also drop weight by using less insulation underneath where it’s compressed.  This makes my back cold enough to wake me up when I roll over on my side with the bag because of the hood.  I can get around this using a balaclava and loosening the hood but if you back sleep, its no issue.

The Marmot’s material is a bit clammy at higher temps, but not a deal breaker. At > ~ 50F I move to a more comfortable Nemo Forte 35.  It packs down small (5.3L), 2lbs 2oz, the vents work, is roomy for side sleeping and the material isn’t clammy.  The lightest best warm weather synth bag I could find.

A 40F EE Revelation Apex (~50F comfort) starts to make more sense at warm temps: 19oz, 7.5L compressed.  I suffer the extra pound of the bag because I just find it more comfortable.

Down is known to be more compressible.  Patagonia’s PlumaFill and TNF’s Thermoball, the latter mimicking 600 fill down, are as close as synthetics get to down-like qualities… as far as I can find.  Both are only used in clothing however.

Been thinking of a synthetic to go inside a waterproof bivy sack with less fears of condensation, but yeah, .. compressibility and weight gain are factors.

Thinking the above EE option w their /7d fabric material (climashield is continuous so no leaks).  My use would be in a WPB bivy so 7d wouldn’t be drafty, but maybe an added bivy-like sleeping bag cover/liner would work in tents, tarps, etc…?

Also use a MLD synthetic quilt with optional head hole so one piece covers 2 functions?  Use a 90gsm alpha direct or octa for your main “hangout” insulation under a shell, then use the quilt as a “serape” if it gets really cold before sleeping.  Don’t hangout at any fashion shows with the ensemble.