UL hiker "swam with the sharks too many times"

I’ve found that becoming an ultralight backpacker has made my day-hike routines quite a bit safer. When packing for an overnight involved at 25 lb pack, only a fraction of that could fit in a daypack. Now that I’ve gotten my overnight kit down to well under 10 lbs, I find that I take most of it with me on long dayhikes.

In most conditions, my daypack carries my SUL, no-cook overnight kit minus the quilt and tarp, plus an emergency blanket. That means I’ve got rain gear, first aid, a warm puffy, and the other essentials with me at all times, and my daypack is still typically lighter than my less-prepared hiking partners’.

Has anyone here unexpectedly fallen into cold water during winter before? I’ve read the recovery steps before but would be interested in how you applied them.

I’ve heard plenty of experienced guys say you can sometimes just stay moving to generate heat and recover. Assuming you’re below treeline, is there a physiological indicator that tells you this isn’t a “push it scenario”. A sign when to go to sleeping bag? Assuming “typical” gear list and you opted to keep moving after a plunge. Would you take the time to shed the down. Maybe keep the fleece/hardshells and keep drudging on hopefully dry snow?

Craig asked, “Assuming you’re below treeline, is there a physiological indicator that tells you this isn’t a “push it scenario”. ”

Sometimes it is enough to just keep moving… Sometimes it isn’t.  The physiological clues are fairly obvious:

First, being cold makes your extremities go cold (circulation favouring the core temperature).  Cold extremities are not too uncommon for anyone who’s done a lot of winter activities, so don’t worry too much.

Second, you’ll start to feel cold all over, and continuing to hike/run doesn’t relieve your coldness.  Now things are starting to “go bad”.  At this point — although it may seem counter-intuitive — it would be ideal to change your base layer and socks.  Yes, stripping down (quickly!) and changing to a dry base layer and socks will usually nip this problem in the bud.  As soon as you’ve re-dressed yourself, get moving.  Also, if you have some warm liquid, drink it NOW.

Third, you’ll start shivering, even though you’re continuing to move.  If you haven’t put on a dry base layer, do it NOW. (Same re: hot liquid.)  This is the point where you may/may not have to spend a little time in your sleeping bag/space blanket.

Fourth, you’ll start to feel worse and worse, and your fine motor skills will deteriorate, as will your ability to think rationally.  Things are now critical.

I think the problem in the case of the woman who died is that she carried nothing that would have helped her in an emergency.  As long as the hikes went well, she was ok.  But when she got wet, she had no dry clothing, no warm liquids, and no sleeping bag.

Don’t underestimate winter in the Adirondacks (or any other mountains, for that matter)!  I never carried a sleeping bag on my winter hikes, but I always had a spare dry base layer, socks, liner gloves, a hand warmer packet (put it next to your heart in an emergency!), and an emergency bivy bag.

“put it next to your heart in an emergency!”

Why next to your heart instead of that big artery in your neck?

Sure, Doug — any big blood-pumper area of the body would be a good placement for the warmer pack!

Thanks Valerie. I just didn’t know if the heart was a better place to put a heat pack. And that scared me a bit, since it’s a well known fact that I don’t have a heart. Nice to know I can put it elsewhere if necessary. :-)

Thanks Valerie. The shivering thing sounds simple but I guess if you’re moving hard AND still shivering maybe that’s not normal. Makes sense. Last time we backpacked at -30F I remember we had “steam” coming off our baselayers.

“Conventional wisdom” for outdoor aerobic activities in cold winter temperatures is to keep dry at all costs.  I was always careful to sweat as little as possible, so I would continue to remove layers until I felt “just right” while moving.  Sometimes that meant people staring at the weirdo (me) wearing a short sleeved shirt on a windless, sunny 15F day… obviously, you layer up immediately when you stop for a rest, or if conditions change (wind, precipitation, temperature drop).  Steam coming off your baselayers is not ideal because you’re getting damp — at that point, try to remove more clothing if you can…

Snow, in cold temperatures, is actually quite dry, and won’t stick to most outerwear (it does stick to fleece and wool, so wear a shell).  Warm-temperature snow is very sticky, and can cause you to wet out a bit.  The trickiest thing is rain or sleet — the temperature is not actually that cold, but those are the perfect conditions for hypothermia, because you’re cold AND damp/wet.

I miss the pristine diamonds-in-the-snow long hikes in the Adirondacks, snowshoeing back to the Loj in the moonlight.  Now I have to worry about excessive heat (which you can’t really dress for, at least nothing that works for me except a wet cotton shirt).

Yeah, probably wait until you’ve started shivering before you go to plan B and get into your sleeping bag.  And when your judgement starts being impaired.

But if you’re shivering and have impaired judgement, it’s more difficult to set up shelter.  So way before that start making a plan, like ask whether you can get to a better location like your car.  Or a sheltered spot to set up a tent or bivy.  Or a place your cell phone will work.

Reduced dexterity in cold is almost routine.  It’s hard to fiddle with stuff with your hands.  It takes longer to do things.  Put your hands in pockets to warm up.  Good to experience this just to learn what happens and how to deal with it.

I experienced hypothermia a bit once.  I removed my cotton base layer and then felt much better.  Now I use synthetic base layer and think it’ll just dry off at some point.  I wouldn’t bother replacing it with a dry version.  If it’s real wet I screwed up and was wearing too much to get so sweaty, but that happens.  It doesn’t take all that much heat to dry off my base layer.

Occasionally I’ll be in 10 miles or so and someone will run by with very little gear.  That always seems weird to me.  Yeah, they can run back 10 miles to safety fairly quickly and they’ll be warm enough because they’re running, but if some injury happens it could take hours or an eternity to get back, and they don’t have enough to stay warm.   And I’m the only person out there for help.  And the cell phone doesn’t work.  Seems unwise to me.

in the winter I won’t venture too far w/o a waterproof bivy (13 oz), a scored and folded ccf pad (5 oz) and a Apex quilt (11 oz)- along w/ a syn or down jacket depending on weather, mittens and a balaclava.  extra calories and fire starting materials that are on the robust side (including my new favorite start a fire in miserable conditions- a Live Fire tin) and a SPOT- turned on in tracking mode from the trailhead.  this all fits w/o any drama into a 20 liter pack, including running packs- the weight is low enough that running/fast packing isn’t a problem

it’s not going to be cozy on a forced overnighter, but am confident I’ll live to tell another day

The shivering thing sounds simple but I guess if you’re moving hard AND still shivering maybe that’s not normal. Makes sense. Last time we backpacked at -30F I remember we had “steam” coming off our baselayers.

It really depends on the conditions, i’ve been warmer hiking in a baselayer top and hiking trousers at -5c than i have with as baselayer, midlayer and waterproof jacket at 3c.

The difference is at 3c we had 50+ mph winds and it never stopped raining for 1 second during the 10 hour hike, on the -5c hike the sun was out and there was no wind.

Wind and rain play a massive massive part in removing heat from your body.

Another thing that makes a massive difference is your clothing, i no longer were any wool or Merino products in cooler wet weather, in my experience they’re terrible when wet.

They offer zero warmth and take an age to dry out

Synthetic clothing on the other hand offer a lot more warmth when wrung out compared to Merino in the same situation, plus synthetics dry a LOT quicker.

I’ve been shivering in a synthetic top, i’ve removed it, wrung it out, put it back on and been comfortable till it soaked again, i’ve never had this in any wool clothing.

Couple more things.

First is pretty obvious, cram some food down your throat, it’s important to keep the bodies furnace fuelled.

Another less obvious thing is to keep well hydrated, might seem like the last thing to worry about when you’re cold and wet, but it’s been shown that dehydration brings on hypothermia a lot faster.

All I can say is there but for the grace of God go I. I have made many mistakes both hiking and backpacking, especially on day hikes and it was more luck than anything that kept me from being killed. Every year we hear about people who were absolutely expert in their genre that get killed. Sometimes it’s a poor judgment call they made- even experts make bad judgment calls sometimes. The best way to honor them is to learn from their mistake and try not to repeat it. I think it’s cool to rehash the event for a learning tool, but it’s not cool to call someone a fool. They may have made a foolish decision (and odds are she realized that herself) but that doesn’t make her a fool. And any one of us could do something like that some day and end up just as dead.