- Sep 19, 2017 at 1:08 pm #3491930
I’ve seen so many guides on pitching a cuben tarp as a half pyramid …from the looks of it, you could just pitch two of these with their open entrances facing each other making one complete mid. I bet you could even use the same center pole …Obviously you will have to pitch the second one asymmetrically so there can be some overlap to close the small gap between the tarps.(can add velcro easily)
But it sounds like it should be fairly practical and straight forward, and only slightly more difficult to pitch than a standard mid, for much much cheaper and more versatility.
I can get a couple large cuben tarps for under 300 and probably end up with something very similar to a MLD DuoMid. I don’t really see it being heavier, probably identical in weight or potentially lighter, that being said the comparison is only slightly valid as the dimensions will be different in reality.
If the splits down the side are still inadequately WP after being overlapped and vecro’d shut, I may be able to make some modifications to address it, I don’t anticipating it being all but so difficult to seal
thoughts?Sep 19, 2017 at 1:56 pm #3491933
Rene RavenelBPL Member
A rectangular tarp makes a half-mid w/ a trapezoidal foot print (the opening is the small side). A half-mid w/ a rectangular foot print makes a trapezoidal flat tarp. If you want to join 2 flat tarps w/ sealed edges (velcro/zipper) things will get a little complicated at the apex.
Make some paper models and see how things work out.Sep 19, 2017 at 2:03 pm #3491935
why don’t you just get Duomid?Sep 19, 2017 at 2:03 pm #3491936
Haha i was actually messing with paper tents right now funnily enoughSep 19, 2017 at 3:38 pm #3491951
another thing would be to mock it up with a plastic tarp. Cheap. You can actually see how much room inside.Sep 19, 2017 at 3:40 pm #3491952
A 8.5 x 11 Tarp can be between 8-13 oz depending on weight and can be pitched into a shelter with the same amount of room as a duomid for lighter and cheaper with a few easy mods and some practice with different pitching techniques …I dont really see why many of the pyramid tarp tents are so expensive as they are only slightly modified cuben tarps. (The floorless ones that is)
Sep 19, 2017 at 5:02 pm #3491964
- This reply was modified 4 months ago by Michael F.
Ryan SmithBPL Member
A mid is more difficult to construct, plus can take more cuben, tape, etc. depending on type.
Sep 19, 2017 at 5:04 pm #3491966
- This reply was modified 4 months ago by Ryan Smith.
I’m looking at my Duomid right now and it seems like there is a lot more labor in it than a flat tarp.
Also I find it give me far more coverage than my flat tarp did.
i agree with the suggestion above about looking at the LBO as inspiration for a modular system that does pretty much what you are describing.
Just my $.02Sep 19, 2017 at 6:21 pm #3491983
“I dont really see why many of the pyramid tarp tents are so expensive as they are only slightly modified cuben tarps”.
You could test that for yourself by buying some cheap painter’s drop sheet and tape and then make a tarp up and after that make a pyramid (with door and vent) and see the difference in time that it takes.
Don’t forget to add zipper, flap cover, mid panel guyout points, apex and corner reinforcements.Sep 19, 2017 at 7:15 pm #3491987
Pyramid tarps have been around a lot longer than Cuben fiber : )
It’s expensive to run a business. Hire people. Ship products. Take returns from unreasonable customers. Pay for a building and equipment. Taxes. Sometimes you’ll make some products that never sell because of changing popularity. It’s only fair to make a profit…
You can make your own but that has problems too, like I keep having new ideas…Sep 19, 2017 at 7:51 pm #3491988
and Jerry would know given that he wrote a very extensive and detailed article on how to do it.
Jerry : how long did it take you to do it ?
(the tent , not the article…)Sep 19, 2017 at 8:29 pm #3491990
50 hours? just grabbing out of thin air
$5 an hour would be $250Sep 19, 2017 at 8:49 pm #3491996
I should probably pay more attention to who is posting because now I can’t credit them, but someone on backpackinglight posted this link http://equipped.com/tarp-shelters.htm . Appendix 4 at the bottom has suggested tarp combos.
Is the Duomid not a rectangular flat tarp?Sep 19, 2017 at 9:10 pm #3492001
The minimum legal wage in Australia for an 18 year old is $12.49 per hour.
However you are not going to get anyone that can do the job for less than $20 per hour.
Starts to sound expensive to me….Sep 20, 2017 at 5:49 am #3492020
Bob MoulderBPL Member
@bobmny10562Locale: Westchester County, NY
A 8.5 x 11 Tarp can be between 8-13 oz depending on weight and can be pitched into a shelter with the same amount of room as a duomid
Sorry, Michael, but this is simply not accurate; I’ve pitched both of these configurations (actually the tarp is 8.5 x 10) and the tarp takes MUCH more room and MUCH more time to pitch.
In crappy conditions (especially with wind) where the objective is to get the shelter up quickly, I’ll take the Duomid every single time…. can be done in under 2 minutes.Sep 20, 2017 at 6:34 am #3492024
James IBPL Member
Mids are more expensive than flat tarps because of the labor involved. We all go to these cottage manufactures – whom I support whole heartily – but it does come with it, some downsides. We’re paying American labor, all those tapes and zippers require someone to put them on there. Labor, even cheapish labor in the US is stupid expensive when compared globally. Big companies don’t go international without a very strong compelling reason and it’s not pennies.
You know what though? I buy something from HMG (I use them a lot since I they’re the cottage manuf. I own the most gear from), I’m happy their employees get off at 4:00 or whatever time it is and are able to feed their families. I also know I’m getting a product developed by someone with a passion along with a team of people with the same passions, trying it out and making it work themselves. It’s very different than buying something that was a result of a board room decision implemented by people who *might* have the same passions as you such as your Baltoros and what not.
We’re both winning in this instance. Sure I’ll always snag stuff from the big boys (such as my family of 4 + dog utilize a Copper Spur UL4) and they’ll always have a place in terms of immediate availability and even the occasional really good UL piece but on the whole I wouldn’t change how things are operating.
We’d all love to spend less money but I personally don’t feel robbed by cottage manufacturer’s prices on mid shelters.Sep 20, 2017 at 9:35 am #3492040
I’m not saying anyone is robbed, I just marvel at brands’ ability to market tents sometimes one half step from a tarp setup for such profits, when I said “surprised” I should have said “impressed”. I believe in business, I’ve never thought negatively of any of it.Sep 20, 2017 at 12:12 pm #3492063
James IBPL Member
From my understanding, the trade offs and overall positives gained from a mid design is far from just good marketing. Increased room and increased weather resistance being chief among the benefits. These benefits for many are more than a “half step” above a flat tarp system. Thru hiking with a partner? Expecting to make camp often in chilly rain or snow? People have needs for these designs and that’s why there’s a market for them.
There’s no mass conspiracy by gear manufacturers attempting to convince the public that more complicated sewn shelters are superior. They’re all in competition to provide what the public is clamoring for, otherwise they quickly lose out to the next guy who is filling that void.
How much of MLD’s core business is providing mid-tarp systems in syl-nylon for people who can’t afford more expensive Cuben Fiber? People shell out as much for these systems as they could for a flat cuben tarp, and they’re not stupid people who don’t know what they’re doing.
I hope to one day own two mid-designed tents in addition to my flat tarp setup, maybe even dream about MYOG them. I have a family of 4 who hits the trails a few times a year as well as someone who goes out solo or with a friend/group. Mids are more than just sexy marketing, they’re kind of awesome at a lot of things flat tarps suck at.Sep 20, 2017 at 4:31 pm #3492110
” I just marvel at brands’ ability to market tents sometimes one half step from a tarp setup for such profits’
That is only because you still haven’t grasped that it is in fact a lot more complex than you think.
I posted a link on how to make a pyramid tent, did you have a look at it or are you just stuck on that idea and don’t want to learn ?
BTW, as James has pointed out , you need to take into account US labour costs.
In Australia labour is even more expensive (even after adjusting for the currency) and that is why nobody makes shelters here apart from one or two cottage guys that make tarps.Sep 20, 2017 at 7:19 pm #3492145
Edward John MBPL Member
I think that there is a company in England that actually does make such a tarp set-up. But think about the weight of 2 full sets of separating zippers.
If you travel in a group there are benefits to combining ‘Mids with tarps, I actually exchanged emails with Oware a while back and SeekOutside have taken the idea to a very good compromise system although a tad smaller than I would use in a group myself.
A properly designed and sewn ‘Mid has a lot of cutting and seaming to maximise the potential of a roll of fabric; a lot more work than making a flat tarp
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.