Two person bivy for Winter travel emergecy

[Michael B]

Had a great hut trip last weekend. We brought our synthetic bags in case we got stuck out one night, they are heavy and bulky.

I want to take our down bags on our next trip. Would the SOL XL BIVY at 8.5oz “good enough” for a winter emergency?

 

i also contacted Borah about a custom cuben bivy

 

thanks

mike

[dirtbag]

I would personally go with Borah Gears bivy.  Just from past experience

[Cherian Thomas]

Have you considered a bothy bag? They let you get out of the wind, sit up and attend to emergencies. With a bivy all you can do is lie down.

[Edward John M]

I second the bothybag but there is no reason you can’t take both a bothybag and a  bivvy bag.

One carries the bothy the other the bivvy and argue over who carries the shovel

If I had to choose between the two I think the bothybag makes more sense with a couple or group. But the space inside a bothybag makes using a sleeping bag difficult so perhaps just an extra down layer and insulated pants makes more sense; however I can envisage ways of using a single bothybag plus a bivvy bag so you could take turns sleeping if conditions allowed it

A two person bothy weighs about 300grams give or take a hundred [ mine is a an old dinosaur but still only weighs about 550 grams] but in this situation I think you would need a proper WPB bivvy bag rather than one made from Cuben

 

[Michael B]

interesting never heard of bothybag.

Why WPN rather than cuben?

[Bruce Tolley]

How deep is the snow where you are travelling?  How cold is the night time low?  If you want an emergency shelter for during an overnight storm when you cannot navigate, perhaps it is time to learn how to build a snow trench or snow hole in a drift or a digloo.  Any of these shelters if properly built would be warmer than a bothy or bivvy above the surface of the snow.

[Edward John M]

What you say is true Bruce but it takes about 90 seconds to use a bothybag if you practice a little first and they make a quick warm-up easy.

Also sometimes it can get very cold and windy but with very little snow cover/snow depth, perhaps just enough snow to obliterate every track and landmark and you can’t make a quinzie when the wind is blowing hard.

Link to eBay

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lifesystems-Ultralight-Emergency-Survival-Storm-Shelter-Reusable-Bothy-Bag-2-Man/392295003032?hash=item5b569ab398:g:O38AAOSwpcRc1Yj6

[Michael B]

The 10th mtn division huts in Colorado are at higher elevations just below tree line.

i was imagining we would look for ponderosa pine to get under perhaps digging out a well.

 

 

[Ryan Jordan]

A 2-person bothy is always with me on winter day hikes. It’s great for lunching out of the wind.

Not a great option for an emergency overnight shelter, I’d rather have a bivy sack, and when I’m traveling solo or with others when the possibility of an overnight is there, I’ll take an MSR Pro Bivy (light, compact, durable and still waterproof-breathable).

I’ve used the SOL Escape and Escape Pro, their closures aren’t as secure but they very breathable and make a solid emergency shelter.

[Michael B]

MSR bivy looks like a nice option for one person. Any thoughts on the e-bivy “Emergency shelter for backcountry adventures”

I wanted a two person for winter travel to use our body heat

[Edward John M]

Just some thoughts.

In the situation you are thinking about a proper full Goretex bivvy will work better to help with dissipation of inherent moisture, windproof and highly water resistant.

Sharing body warmth works but it works even better if you share the insulation.

Assuming you will have clothing appropriate to the situation I would invest in a couples quilt in APEX.

My Nunatak overquilt was made very wide and with a fitted footbox to take a 25″ wide winter mat, in an emergency 2 people could huddle under it

Going back 50 years to the introduction of Goretex 2 person bivvy bags with solid floors and a WPB roof panel were a common site amongst cashed up climbers in Scotland [ there were a few around] and designed to have one end held up with iceaxes. Most designs had no seams except side seams in the Goretex panel that went for foot end to head end and used the full width of the fabric. Goretex is a dream to sew but a real bugger to seal properly, not really a problem in sub-zero weather

Read Rogers comments on shared warmth in his sleeping bag design pages.

Also read Andy Kirkpatrick for his comments on sharing warmth and shelter from a hard core climbing perspective

[Michael B]

Right we have Zpacks quilts with zippers . Pretty sure they zipper together like other bags we’ve had.

[Bruce Tolley]

My goretext bivy weighs almost 1.4 lbs. Since there are two of you, how about just sharing the weight of the 3lb BD First Light?

 

[Edward John M]

If using the UL WPB from RSBTR I could sew up an emergency 2-person bivvy weighing a lot less tho.

https://ripstopbytheroll.com/collections/waterproof-breathable-laminate-composite-fabric/products/1-4-oz-10d-waterproof-breathable?variant=26261097537

5 yards would weigh 10 ounces plus about 6 ounces for the floor and ancillaries

[Adam G]

I always take a bothy bag in winter with a sleeping pad to keep me off the snow. Of course, I always bring a shovel for tree wells and the like. And yes, I’ve had to use it to dig someone out.

Recently I’ve been taking one on summer day hikes just in case. You can get in one in under a minute, and it warms up quite a bit. It’s also a great place to get out of the rain on a chilly day hike.

I have a two person one, and it’s a bit tricky to get it right with one person. If my trip goes too long unexpectedly, but I’m otherwise doing well, I’ll probably just hike out by headlamp because it reduces the risk of hypothermia. I figure that if I end up in trouble to the point that I can’t hike out, I probably won’t be sleeping through the night.

I would only dig a snow trench if there was serious wind or I had time. Also, I wouldn’t count on it. If you get hurt, digging a trench may be impossible.

[Elliott Wolin]

We’ve started taking a 2P bothy on all day hikes, summer and winter.  Nothing better when it’s time for lunch and it’s rainy and windy.

As noted, bothy bags are not great for overnight use, they typically are not breathable and  condensation can be horrible.  I suppose if you are awake all night you can vent it often, but who wants to stay awake all night.  I also suppose a bothy can be rigged as a tarp, but they are not large and may only work for one person, maybe two over a snow pit.

Interesting idea:  a zippered bothy that can be unzipped to make a decent sized tarp, weight penalty due to the very long zipper needed…have to check bothy dimensions to see if this works.

 

 

[Edward John M]

My own bothy bag as well as most other commercial ones have vents to try and reduce condensation but they can get soggy inside. You could make your own from plain fabric if you know for sure that there will be no rain, Hilleberg make a “Windsack” from unproofed fabric.

TerraRosa Gear in Australia do a version of their 6-person bothy that converts to an A-tent but that has the weight penalty of the larger size. A 6-person bothy is the correct size for most picnic tables tho [ noted previously on this forum]

[Elliott Wolin]

I’ve been thinking of making a 6P for picnic tables.  I made a 4P that almost works, you sort of have to lean in a bit and the picnic table can’t be too large.

Anyway, they’re great if it’s blowing really cold, e.g. next to a lake.  But as noted, vents are needed, the more people, the more vents.

Making one out of uncoated fabric is an interesting idea, where we go in the winter it’s almost always below freezing, and what you’re looking for is wind protection and some warmth.

[Edward John M]

A compromise might be to make the bottom half of the walls from coated, the top half breathable and a coated roof, with a small tunnel vent for each occupant that can be closed off with a cord.

If specific for picnic table what about a peaked ridge? You could use a walking pole at each end of the table to hold up the ridgeline.

[Tjaard Breeuwer]

if bringing down quilts, I would only ever bring a breathable bivysack.

If considering bothy bags, have a close look at the actual sizes, they are even more fanciful than tent sizes.

i have the RAB superlight “4person” bothy, and it is tight with my familty(none of whom are very large, 2, adults, a 9 and 12 year old).

Since it is only 5’ long(I think) it would not be possible for two adults to lie down inside it, and of course, it’s not breathable.

i bring it on day trips, for the value of a sheltered rest area, especially with kids, and in case of emergency, it can be a hang out.

If I truly am concerned about a forced night sleeping out, I bring a waterproof breathable bivy, usually just SOL, because my others are older and heavier than a mid style tent.

 

i really wish someone like Zpacks would make a lightweight bothy bag with super light breathable fabric and cubes, and in a bit longer length, so it could be used for both breaks and emergency nights out.

[Elliott Wolin]

You can always make your own, bothy bags are pretty simple.   Mostly square with long, straight seams.  Round vents are not so simple, but they are not too hard to figure it out.

And cheap if you can get the fabric on closeout.  They can be made out a few large pieces or multiple smaller pieces, it’s not critical.

[David Thomas]

I’ve used the SOL bivy bag in the Aleutians for one night at a time with my inflatable pad and down quilt inside of it.  I like the light weight since we’re stomping all over those grassy volcanos chasing caribou and may or may not get back to town each day (but certainly would on the second day).  My down quilt absorbs some moisture during the night and that’s fine for one night at a time (I dry it out in the condo back in Adak town) but I wouldn’t want to rely on it for more than 2 nights in a row.

I’ve got a bothy shelter and have carried it at times, but have never had a time when I needed to / wanted to use it.  The various times I’ve tried to sleep seated, up against a rock or tree, even with a pad under my butt and behind my back, I have not slept well (if at all).

If it’s just for emergency use, an even lighter and cheaper option would be a large sheet of polycyro.  Like 8′ x 8′, enough to wrap yourself and your pad & bag up in a burrito and tuck the loose ends underneath.  It would weigh 3.8 ounces / 100 grams and cost $12-15 in the hardware aisle of Walmart,sold as winter window-sealing kits or $4 when it goes on sale at the end of each winter (which is coming up!).  Pro-tip: label it in Sharpie as to size and weight so you never have to unfold it in the future to determine its size – I can never get them as compact once I’ve used it as they come, folded up, in the box.

[Edward John M]

There is a weight point where taking a tarp tent makes more sense. This is why I bought my first Chouinard Megamid, I had 3 small kids and it made sense to use one of those if we needed to get out of the wind and rain. Always took a small plywood baseplate and 4 pegs too. But that was day skiing with little kids and I erred on the side of caution

But the point I made above is also relevant, a 2 person bivvy or WPB overquilt can be used as part of your normal winter sleeping set-up.

I’ve spent more than a few cold and wet nights in trashbags and the old Scottish bright orange “survival” bags back in my climbing days to know that it only works for that first night. If there is a possibility that there may be a second night then using something highly water resistant but vapour permeable makes sense and you may decide to take the heavier item.

 

 

[Mike M]

A bothy works pretty well for an emergency shelter, no you’re not going to lie down in it, but it does a good job of sheltering you from wind/snow.  It also stays relatively warm from your body heat, two people warmer yet.

In addition, you’ll want a decent sit pad, some additional layers, a shovel and I’ve started carrying a couple of 12 hour beeswax candles for additional warmth.

A bivy can work, but it really needs to be waterproof in a snowy environment.  You’re also going to need some substantial insulation to go with it.  A half bag and good parka would probably keep you alive, but certainly not comfortable in colder temps.

[Michael B]

Great info everyone!

to reiterate this is for emergency shelter on our way to a 10mtn division hut/yurt and hopefully for one night.

learning lots of interesting approaches as always

thanks

[Author]

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