Two CCF Pads?

[Tallgrass]

After having dealt with an air mattress disaster last year (a problem in my valve that I couldn’t do a field repair on), I’m thinking of going back to CCF.  Before last year, I had used a single Therm-a-rest Z-Lite foam pad for about decade.  I’m getting older (45) and last year I swore I was going to do something different.  So last year I gave up and went to an air mattress.  The air mattress was more comfortable — until it malfunctioned.  From that point on, the remaining nights on my trip were awful. So, I’m contemplating using two CCF pads this August in the High Sierra.  Specifically, I thinking about buying the full length Nunatak Lunapad (78″ long, 12oz.) and then using a Gossamer Gear Nighlight torso pad (29″, 4oz.) on top.  These pads seem to be made out of the same material and people on site seem to think the material is more comfortable than the Z-Lite foam.  I’m a side-sleeper and this arrangement would give me two layers of CCF on my shoulder and hip.

It is easy to calculate the added R-Value of combining the two pads.  But I’m curious if using two layers would be more comfortable?  Is there anybody out there that has tried this arrangement and can speak to the comfort?

Thanks!

[Bruce Tolley]

I have used the Gossamer Gear pads and the Cascade Designs Zlites. The GG longer pad (i think it is called the 3/4 length) which is not currently on their web site is relatively comfy for a closed cell but a bit narrow for me. It also rolls up to a rather wide diameter but it is my go to CCF for snow camping.

In my experience the Zlites do “wear down” in that the foam loses its ability to push back over time. The other factor to keep in mind with respect to the Zlite is that the foam is relatively thin, I think I once measured 3/8 inch but often a thicker number is spec’d which must be the thickness of the egg carton shape.

I also own the short GG pad. I think it is really too short to be really called a torso length unless you are a short person. I ended up extending mine by using Tyvek tape to join it to a GG sit pad.

I am a bit surprised at how bad your experience with inflatables has been.

But back to the question, in my opinion two CCFs will not be as comfortable as combing a CCF with an inflatable. If you already own a relatively new Zlite, you could combine it with a torso length inflatable. If the inflatable fails, then you fold the Zlite in half and put your pack under your legs.

[Roger Caffin]

There is no magic in all this. You just have to remember that the two factors: warmth and comfort, may not be the same thing.

Cheers

[Brian Hall]

What about an inflatable on top of a ccf pad? That way you have the comfort of the inflatable and still have the ccf pad if the inflatable fails.

[todd]

Yes, I find two more comfy than one.

I prefer Brian’s suggestion though: A Prolite XS on top of a CCF of your choice will be awesome and oh-so-warm!

[jscott]

“After having dealt with an air mattress disaster last year (a problem in my valve that I couldn’t do a field repair on)”,,,

Maybe get a pad with a different valve design? It would help if you mentioned the pad model.

I use that super thin foam pad that GG sells for protection for my Exped inflatable pad. You could carry a thicker foam pad for the same reason, and in the off chance that your inflatable failed, at least you’d be warm.

I don’t think that doubling up on a ccf will add any comfort, to be frank.

[Tallgrass]

Thanks everybody for replies.  I just looked at the dimensions of the full length Lunapad when rolled up.  Wow, 12 inches in diameter, when rolled up.  I should have looked at that before I asked this question.  I can’t afford to carry something that bulky around.  I’ll look at other air pads.  I was using a Klymit mattress last year.  They repaired it under their warranty.  But I think I’m going to have to go to look into the Thermarest Neoair Xlite or Xtherm.

[Pigeon]

If you’re still interested in closed cell foam try 3/8″ without ridges. My 50″ pad rolls tightly with a 1″ gap and 5 layers of foam on each side (15/8″) so a ~5″ diameter at most.

I’ll 2nd/3rd the Prolite + foam suggestion. Self inflating pads seem less prone to failure but not at the valve specifically. The dropoff for your legs would also be less than an Xlite.

[Jerry Adams]

Maybe your valve malfunction was a rare event.  Try again.  Many people use inflatable mats for years without problem.

2 CCF pads will be heavier and less comfortable than an air mat.

[James Marco]

In Fall and spring I often carry both: Nightlite 5 layer fanfold (~51″) and a NeoAir (Origonal, medium.) Doesn’t help with comfort except if you believe warmth means comfort. The NeoAir is perhaps the most comfortable pad I ever used. I also have the Klymit XFrame(edit: Sorry, all. not Xlite) and used it for a couple weeks, but haven’t used it at all in a couple years.

[Roger Caffin]

Sue & I sleep on Exped UL-7s, but we usually have a 1/8″ CCF mat underneath. To be sure, the CF mat adds some warmth (which we don’t need in the summer), but it also offers some protection for the mat against spikes on the ground. We carry the CCF in the summer as much for the protection as anything else.

Yes, a rolled-up CCF mat can be large. Ski-touring in winter, my pack tends to be a bit fuller than in summer, but we are not going through sharp scrub when skiing. So I sometimes carry the CCF rolled up in a stuff sack on the outside of my pack. I make sure it is WELL-secured there.

Cheers

[Paul McLaughlin]

Having been a thermarest owner since 1982 with no serious malfunctions I have come to depend on them pretty thoroughly. Just last year I went to an Xtherm with no CCF for snow camping use and it’s great. I have a tiny voice in the back of my mind still saying “what if….” but I don’t listen to it any more. I have however played around in the past with the 2 foam pads idea, and one conclusion I came to to is that if you want more comfort make sure you use two different pads, so that the patterns do not “nest” the way that a Z-rest does when you fold it up. The different molded shapes on top of each other give you as much comfort as you will get with closed cell. Still not like an inflatable, but better than a single closed cell in my experience. And yeah, bulky as all get out but it’s bulk you can strap to the outside of the pack, unless, as Roger says, you have to contend with brush and such.

[Barry P]

“If the inflatable fails, then you fold the Zlite in half and put your pack under your legs.”

+1 . Actually, just folding in 1/2, a full size zlite is as comfy as a neoair for me. Then I put my backpack under my legs. The zlite folds smaller than other CCF. But it does take up more room on the backpack— that’s the trade off. Because of that, I don’t bring the CCF too often.

I do sleep on a hard foam bed, so I’m used to stiff foam.

May everyone sleep well,

-Barry

[Tallgrass]

I might be getting over the initial shock of the rolled dimensions of the luna pad.  So, last night I was again looking into this option of two CCF pads.  This morning, I stumbled across this amazing thread from 2012:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/64896/

That second picture is exactly what I’ve been thinking about (but had not visualized) when I started this thread.  His thread is very interesting.  He talks about how you need to do the opposite of a thicker pad at the shoulders/hips.  Rather, you need more pad in between those two areas.  I’ve sent him a PM, to see if he can offer any updated input on this idea.

[Casey Bowden]

Tallgrass,

Regarding the thread I started in 2012 that you referenced, I have not pursued the two-foam pad option any further and am still using the Exped Synmat UL7.

It’s nice to know the threads from 2012 still exist and that they can be found.

[Tallgrass]

Thanks for the reply, Casey.  Well, I might give it a go.  If I go this route on our High Sierra trip this August, I’ll report back on how I faired.  Thanks again for your other thread.  Very interesting.

[Barry P]

In that thread picture, I noticed the bumps were up. I’ve found it’s twice as comfortable with the bumps down……..imho

But that zlite is sure easier to pack.

-Barry

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