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Tarptent DCF Moment coming soon?


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Home Forums Gear Forums Gear (General) Tarptent DCF Moment coming soon?

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  • #3765624
    Monte Masterson
    BPL Member

    @septimius

    Locale: Changes Often

    Seems like the savvy Britons over on trek-lite.com are always a step ahead of what’s new in ultralight backpacking gear. Maybe it’s because their day starts 5 hours earlier than East Coast US, I don’t know.

    But this pic on TT’s IG page has a few people speculating. Photo gives you just enough of a glimpse to tease you. Yep, I’d definitely have to say a Moment by the looks of the cross hoop. https://www.instagram.com/p/ClHyjkOP3Gt/

    https://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/shelter-news-a-thread-for-new-shelter-talk.3986/page-132#post-229377

    I’m sure Henry S knows what he’s talking about when he says .55 DCF is adequate enough for his tents, but a Moment in .75 would be an extremely attractive 4-season tent option.

    #3765663
    Jason G
    BPL Member

    @jasong

    Locale: iceberg lake

    Nice! I still have my SW moment from over 10 years ago.  I would be very interested in a dcf version

    #3765761
    Brad W
    BPL Member

    @rocko99

    I thought TT was moving back towards silpoly?

    #3765770
    Brad Rogers
    BPL Member

    @mocs123

    Locale: Southeast Tennessee

    <p>I’m not sure what the profit margins are for DCF shelters vs. Silnylon or Silpoly, but as long as they are making money, and people are paying absurd prices for them, companies will make DCF shelters.</p><p>It’s not a shelter I’ve ever used, but I’ve always thought the Momemt DW was a good looking design for those that don’t use poles. </p>

    #3765865
    DWR D
    BPL Member

    @dwr-2

    Even for those who do use poles! Sometimes it’s nice to do a day hike or climb from camp and not have to drop your tent to be able to use your poles…

     

    #3766081
    Henry S
    BPL Member

    @07100

    #3766088
    Monte Masterson
    BPL Member

    @septimius

    Locale: Changes Often

    Wow, 26.25 oz full packed weight (carbon arch pole and solid inner)! 31.25 oz with optional carbon crossing pole. How could you not like it? Opting for an aluminum arch pole instead will add 3.2 oz and mesh inner is.25 oz more.

    $639 but I see some blem models are available for $50 less. Solid inner $30 more, carbon arch pole add $10, carbon crossing pole $42 more. So deluxe winter setup is $721.

    It’s beautiful!! Gone is the bright yellow arch of the silnylon Moment.

    #3766099
    Sam Farrington
    BPL Member

    @scfhome

    Locale: Chocorua NH, USA

    Monte,

    Hope you keep this one for a while.  Good job by TT with the DCF tailoring.  Dry pitch. Hope you are no more than average height, though. The external pole might block snow shedding.  Would like to see dual side vents at very top.  Looks a lot more spacious than the Notch Li with 15.75 sq/ft of floor space.

    #3766101
    Monte Masterson
    BPL Member

    @septimius

    Locale: Changes Often

    I can’t afford it Sam but just because I’m on a diet doesn’t mean I can’t look at the menu. Now if it was camo I’d probably sell plasma or do whatever I had to do to get the money.

    #3766109
    Arthur
    BPL Member

    @art-r

    My pre-DCF Monument weighs 37.8 oz with no external pole.  If my math is correct, I can buy this to lighten my pack by 11 oz.  That is about $930 per pound savings.  And I thought steak was expensive these days.

    #3766120
    Sam Farrington
    BPL Member

    @scfhome

    Locale: Chocorua NH, USA

    Monte, join the club.

    Wait till they make it in their silpoly, which should be much less expensive.  And it will probably last longer and be more compact to pack up.  And the canopy probably won’t need the external pole because the silpoly won’t sag or wrinkle when wet.

    NB:  The carbon hoop pole appears to be the Easton .296, which is not as sturdy as the .346.  Also, the height and width at the head and foot ends seems a bit cramped.

    #3766125
    Monte Masterson
    BPL Member

    @septimius

    Locale: Changes Often

    The long crossing pole isn’t to necessarily accommodate any “sagging” in the silnylon or the DCF Moment but rather more for overall stability. The Moment has proven itself to be a pretty decent 4 season tent. And the tunnel design is one of the best 1 person shelters in foul weather. Just look at Terra Nova, Nordisk and many others who make some of the most solid 1P tents for use in strong winds and light to moderate snow. Most people like to sit up inside their tents though and the smaller tunnels make it harder to do that, if you even can at all.

    3 of the top tent designers (Joe @ ZPacks, DD and Henry S) all maintain that .51 oz to .55 oz DCF is plenty good enough for their tents and they obviously know a heck of a lot more than I do. But I’m in the Ron Bell camp of .74 to 0.8 DCF or nothing. It’s stronger and last longer and would only add about 1.5 oz to the weight of the fly. Seems like if any of the Tarptent models warranted the use of  .75 oz DCF the Moment DW Li would have been the one. A Moment Li made with Spruce Green .75 would make it a lot more appealing to me. Not to say the Moment in .51 isn’t adequate though, what do I know?

     

    #3766141
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    “And the tunnel design is one of the best 1 person shelters in foul weather.”

    that was my question. If this is true, especially for high winds, then yes, this is a swell tent indeed!

    #3766153
    Mole J
    BPL Member

    @mole

    Locale: UK

    @Monte one reason they use 0.5DCF is that 0.75 DCF is stiffer and bulkier than 0.5 ( which is overly  bulky itself for my tastes compared to Silnylon or silpoly)

     

    @ Sam  have you had a Moment and found that to be the case?  I used my partner’s Moment DW  (without the crossing pole) for 9 consecutive windy rainy nights in Scottish Highlands 5 years ago. No sag or wrinkling whatsoever.  Not a jot.  Experienced the same lack of sag on our Stratospire2 and  my Notch – 100s of nights use between them all.  As Ron Bell states  in another thread, some poor Silnylons sag, others don’t sag much at all. Some silpolys sag too.

    Been using Silnylon tents since the mid 80s. If well designed with quality fabric,   pitch them right and tighten up once relaxed, and they don’t sag in wet weather.  If temperature drops a lot overnight they can sag in places, but not found it to be much at all with our Tarptents. Probably the design/cut helps, as does properly tight pitching.

     

    We also used a Big Sky Chinook (supersil outer)for a wettish trip last year  that didn’t sag either!

    #3766156
    Dan Durston
    BPL Member

    @dandydan

    Locale: Canadian Rockies

    Looks really nice. Impressive how nicely that pitches considering how little stretch (forgiveness) there is in DCF and the shape has quite a bit of curvature. I presume those cords to clip to the optional pole are removable so they don’t flap around when not in use….

    Also nice to see Henry’s vintage collection of Thermarests are still alive and well :)

    #3766179
    jscott
    BPL Member

    @book

    Locale: Northern California

    Yeah, the Notch Li has been my aspirational tent, but honestly, this would seem to set a new standard for me. I like not having to use my hiking poles for tent set up if possible–I occasionally do day trips and like to use them.

    School me as to why the Notch Li would work better in foul weather–or not.

    #3766191
    Sam Farrington
    BPL Member

    @scfhome

    Locale: Chocorua NH, USA

    “If well designed with quality fabric,   pitch them right and tighten up once relaxed, and they don’t sag in wet weather.”

    Mole J:  Am not clear what you mean by “… tighten up once relaxed  …”  If it means getting up to tighten attachments to pegs in a storm, then it is exactly the problem, from expansion of the fabric sufficient to ruin a taut pitch, and is equivalent to my experience with silnylon.  A few have maintained that there are still silnylons that stay taut in storms due to their elasticity.  So I kept testing swatches but had no luck.  A recent post from Roger Caffin explained why this is the case due to restrictions in manufacture, and explains how his tunnel design, with the help of some bungee cords at the front attachments, maintain a taut canopy.  That could apply to the Moment design, as it is supported by a center hoop and has pitchlock type connections at each end of the abbreviated tunnel.  But I’m not aware of any bungee cord or other use of elastic to tension the pitch of the Moment.

    Yes, I have had  one of the original Moments, and it had the same problem, which is in the nylon and has northing to do with the quality of the pitching or design.  Given that you’ve had markedly different experiences with silnylons with different tents for many years, I will only say that an explanation is beyond me.

    #3766192
    Mole J
    BPL Member

    @mole

    Locale: UK

    Sam. I mean exactly that. It’s even in instructions from many manufacturers – has been for decades!  Nylon loosens/relaxes once cold or wet so after maybbe half an hour or an hour after setup you should just ust tighten the pitch, which takes up any “sag” and the tent stays taut all night.

    I was taught this as a schoolboy in UK.

    I’ve often been camping in allnight winter rain – so long dark  nights-, and always found our Silnylon Tarptents just as taut as they were when pitched 16 hours before. The trick is to pitch tight. Many folk don’t seem to pitch their  tents tight enough, especially those used to dome type tents. Leads to unecessary sag n flap.

    Anyhow  I apologise, this a digression on a thread about the DCF Moment. The DCF Moment looks a work of art. But not for me I think.

     

     

    #3766229
    Sam Farrington
    BPL Member

    @scfhome

    Locale: Chocorua NH, USA

    Mole J,

    Thank you for that clarification.  I would agree that silnylon, or PUnylon for that matter, is fine in the conditions that you describe.  And in those conditions, your long time approach makes perfect sense.

    However, it is the extreme weather conditions that are my concern, even though they are not likely to occur often, although hikes that run for weeks, not days, make extreme conditions more likely.  And climate change adds to that to some degree.  I’ve found that when going out for a couple weeks, for example, in Colorado or northern New England, there have been instances of severe weather with heavy rain and winds that last at least from later in the day to most of the night.  And have noticed over the years a gradual increase in such weather.

    During such events, it is necessary to get the tent up quickly, fill a couple water bottles, and get and stay under cover in order to stay dry for meals and for the night.  This is where a good tent shines, and makes a big difference compared to average tents and tarps. It means not having to go out into heavy rain to tighten a loose canopy, and in the worst case, using one of the emptied bottles when nature calls.

    Some of the best tents follow variations of a Skurka design developed for hikes lasting months.  However, they present fairly long expanses of fabric from pole down to stake, and as such present a problem when nylon fabric gets saturated and loses its taut shape.  In testing both sil and PU coated nylons in heavy rain, the nylon expanded to different degrees, but none competed with silpoly, which remained taut, and did not require re-entry into a rain storm.

    In such situations, heavy winds can blow over a tent that is not tautly secured, blow water all over the place, and one can get soaked.  Especially above 11-12 thousand feet elevation, hypothermia can be life threatening.  Knowing that such situations can and will inevitably arise, is what attracts me to silpoly.

    Also note that in testing silnylon prototype canopies at lower elevations and protected from high winds, I found that silnylon canopies that were drum tight indoors became loose and unsuited for high winds, and remained so until the fabric dried out, usually not until the next day.  The silnylon tested was first quality 30 denier from Quest Outfitters in Florida.  And a number of other silnylons drawn tight in plastic embroidery loops, exhibited the same amount of expansion when placed behind window screens next to heavy rain on a deck.  Those silnylons included so-called 6,6.

    Whether DCF or Silpoly prevail in the tent market vs silnylon remains to be seen.  But now that a number of companies are offering silpoly, backpackers will have a choice.

    #3766237
    Mole J
    BPL Member

    @mole

    Locale: UK

    Sam, your “extreme” conditions sound like a typical UK winter/shoulder season weather I’ve already described. We don’t have many trees on our hills, and get Atlantic weather systems constantly, so strong wind n rain all night is not uncommon.  Though, as you point out, I think becoming even more common with climate change.

    And yes, our Silnylon Tarptents do stay taut all night in such weather with proper pitching.

    Your embroidery ring tests show that Silnylon does relax, which I don’t disagree with. If you had a way of tightening up the relaxed fabric ,you will see it’s stretch reaches a limit and will stay taut thereafter.

    #3766281
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    a way of tightening up the relaxed fabric ,you will see it’s stretch reaches a limit and will stay taut thereafter.
    This is a very good point which seems to have been overlooked or missed too often.

    Cheers

    #3766283
    Sam Farrington
    BPL Member

    @scfhome

    Locale: Chocorua NH, USA

    Mole J,
    It has been is no problem to retighten the fabric in the embroidery rings, and replace it inside the window screens open to the outdoors. Same result. The expanded fabric will not retighten, though, until the fabric and ring are brought indoors and the fabric is allowed to dry out.

    As Roger Caffin’s posts have shown, much of this can be overcome with his tunnel tent design with two bungee cords attached to the front stake loops and stretched. Jack Stephenson of Warmlite, an aeronautical engineer, tried for years to address the silnylon sag and wrinkling with high tension much as Roger has done, even by attempting to laminate mylar to his tunnel tents, but did not have much success.

    The best approach to this old problem that I’ve found is by using silpoly woven tent fabrics that like nylon have some elasticity on the bias, but absorb less moisture, and expand much less with exposure to moisture. This allows a greater variety of approaches to tent design in addition to tunnels. The principal debate about this I’ve seen on BPL is about whether the silpoly is as strong as nylon. It has been a long debate due to the many variables involved, such as the quality of the fabrics and the quality control in manufacture, not to mention the effects on the fabrics from different coatings.

    #3766302
    matthew k
    Moderator

    @matthewkphx

    We are getting pretty far away from the topic of Henry’s new tent. Let’s move the discussion of tensioning woven embroidery hoop tent bias stoves to a more focused thread please. 😉

    #3766381
    Sam Farrington
    BPL Member

    @scfhome

    Locale: Chocorua NH, USA

    Certainly, Matthew.  I would be glad to.

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