Trail Designs copies Starlyte with new Kojin Stove

[J R]

Very nice response, Rand.

[Troels L]

Thanks, I will look into it :)

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

n/m

[Mole J]

Dan

Dan Durston,I Ithink you are confusing  gap with total height?

The original stove Inc stand was a total of 1.8″ high which means a 1″ gap. (As stated in your own post on your link).

 

 

 

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Yup. Whoops. You’re right Mole. I deleted my post as it was wrong and would just sew pot height confusion.

[DAN-Y]

Troels L.
Your kit was originally designed for Jason Quick for use with esbit not alcohol.

//backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/72925/

Your 4 x 2.5 inch diameter a pot is really pushing the Starlyte to it’s limits as far as being confined in the small cone.

Once the water comes to a boil, a great deal of heat is radiated back into the confined area causing the radical burn rate of any stove being used, including a TD 12-10 stove. The water no longer absorbs the heat and bounces back. There is one exception, the future Starlyte XL3.

The over heating of the Starlyte and then pressure used to snuff it out with the lid while the burner is very hot, is what caused the seal to finally fail after repeated tests. Pressure onto the top of burner. The lid was never meant to be used as a snuffer.

I use “Super Glue” to seal the seam. Put your burner back together and seal it with super glue. Your small cup/pot( Dimensions: 4″ x 2.5″ (d x h)requires only one half/15ml ounce maximum of fuel. Never put more than 30ml of fuel in the burner. If more should accidently go in, shake some of it out. Alcohol expands when heated and could cause the fuel to rise up and over the sides of the burner and cause it to be engulfed in flames. Extreme heat will deteriorate the super glue.
A full refund has been issued via PayPal. Thank you for posting your photos and informing us of your experience. It has brought about the opportunity to have some important information to be posted.

This is what a 12-10 stove looks like after being subjected to thermal feedback inside a cone:

[DAN-Y]

 

@mole, Who knows, maybe Dan( Zelph) can’t supply demand, so TD have come up with a version of their own to consistently cover orders.

No, not at all, I always had 100 on hand to ship at a moments notice. That was never the problem.

[DAN-Y]

Dan Durston said:

but for a company like Trail Designs that goes to such great lengths to ensure others don’t copy their clever designs, it’s disappointing to see them coping someone else’s.

It is disappointing, and they never give credit where credit is due to the source of their improvements.

They copied my idea to add ridges to Foster cans to make them more durable as pots. They copied my idea to add a ridgeline to the popular K-Mart grease pot that I introduced on whiteblaze.net

[Rand Lindsly]

Ladies and Gentlemen:

This is not true.   I honestly do not want to get into a pissing match on this forum.   There is way too much of that.   Bottom line is, I have an email thread that directly contradicts this.   Since Dan is opening the door that I refused to, no, he did not have inventory.   No, he was not shipping to us.  Yes, we did offer to help manufacture for him when he said he did not have the cycles.   Yes, he did suggest that we make our own.   I have the documentation to back this up.

The only reason I’m saying this at all is that we’re being lied about, for what reason I have no idea.   Since I know that this is all too common here, and there never seems to be an end to this class of behaviour once it gets started, I will not participate because it never goes anywhere good.    If anybody has a real provable need to know what really happened, get in touch with me outside of this forum.   Otherwise, that’s the end of my participation in this thread.

Rand

[James Marco]

I don’t have a dog in this here fight. But, most combustion devices, using wood, alcohol, coal, and other petroleum products have already been invented, usually by the 1800’s, in one form or another. Caps, wicks, tin cans, etc have all been in use for more than 200 years in many cases. Even the rotary engine or Wankel engine was first designed in the 50’s. A jet engine dates back a few thousand years.

[Christopher *]

… and using a cone as a small pot support goes back to at least the late 1800’s if you look at the patents. That doesn’t stop TD from vigorously defending their spin on the frustum design. I have seen them do it on this very forum.

The point is if you want people to respect your little neck of the woods so you can eek out a living I think the least that can be expected is that you should respect others little necks in turn. This is an outright, obvious and (given TD’s previous comments regarding the sanctity of their own designs) highly offensive copy of Dans work.

[Kattt]

Sounds to me like this is none of our business. Being winter and all we could keep this going and speculate and throw darts around but to what end….

[J R]

+1 to Kat.

There is no need to hold Trail Designs and Zelph’s feet to the fire and make them tell us their side of the story. There’s a lot of speculation flying around both about the history of the situation and about patent law and intellectual property rights law, yet how many of us are lawyers and have all the facts and know what we’re really talking about?

They both initially told us it wasn’t a fight just a business decision, and we should leave it at that. I’ve been a customer of both, I like them both, I bet many of you are in the same boat. Just let it go.

[James Marco]

Christopher*, I am sorry. I thought competition in a free market was the name of the game. Make it better, make it cheaper, make sales.

[Roger Caffin]

Let it go.

Roger

[DAN-Y]

@katherine This past summer I asked TD about the Starlyte and why they weren’t offering it anymore. Rand said there had been some problems with them overheating.

(personally, mine has been just fine)

Over heating was a problem caused by over filling. Cone users were trying to heat large pots of water, 900ml and upward because TD was selling the Starlyte with all their sidewinder kits. I had discused that with them as one of the reasons for the over heating.

There was a point in time that my supplier of aluminum containers had switched to a new supplier. The new containers were much better and more than likely would resolve the problem of the lid coming off even if the burner over heated. I asked Rand to bare with me until I thouroughly tested them and would not send him more of the old inventory. The new container had a slightly smaller diameter and so I also needed to find a supplier for a new lid that would fit. Rand did say he would help assemble them, I appreciated that but could not supply him with all the parts needed (the new lid) The old lids are green in color and the new are clear. I told Rand I could not give a date when I could ship new burners/stoves. He said if I could not provide him burners/stoves, he would make his own. I made it clear to him that I was very much interested in be his supplier.

At that same period of time I was purchasing Caldera Cones for the custom Toaks kits that had a ridgeline to support the pots. We had a good relationship going.

[Stormin]

Serve and volley😤

[DAN-Y]

Stormin, I’m giving some good information wanted by contributors of this thread. I still have more to add for the “rest of the story” I’ll tell why I severed our business relationship.

[John S.]

Please lock this thread.

[Roger Caffin]

All
I am very close to locking this thread. It is becoming a bit too rancorous and not how we want BPL to go.
Parties with a commercial interest in the matter may PM me, but we do NOT want to get involved in the commercial details.

Roger Caffin
Moderator

[Kevin B]

I’ve been a happy customer of both outfits. Keep the thread open, please.

Frankly, to me the kojin’s metal screw lid (opposed to silicon press fit of Starlyte), single piece of metal for lower stove body (opposed to the 2 piece design of Starlyte), and no restrictor plate at top all separate the design substantially from the Starlyte.

Where as the Stormin “Starlyte-like” stoves seem like an exact copy of the Zelph Starlytes in form and function.

[Dave Heiss]

I second the motion to lock this thread.

[Kevin B]

Why stop discussion of the cottage industry?

BPL forums have less interesting content than ever with the lack of trip reports and flood of Gear Swappers.

This thread is a neat insight to the industry. Thanks Dan for starting it, and Rand and Zelph for contributing.

Don’t click on the thread link if this thread hurts your sensibilities.

[Roger Caffin]

Why stop discussion of the cottage industry?
We are very happy to have such a discussion.

However, BPL does not wish to play host to a flame war (sorry about the pun) between commercial rivals.

Roger Caffin
Moderator
BPL

[Brando Sancho]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>I just got my first Caldera Cone and Starlyte off gear swap. Love it!</p>
I imagine there are enough Starlyte fans out there that they’ll remain the top choice.

[Author]

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