Thoughts on Dan Durston’s new pack

[Anonymous]

Forgot to mention, without the alloy frame.   I am without pack however.  FedEx is on day seven from NJ to CA.  No worries.  I have plenty of time.

[Bill in Roswell]

I just want add to Exos comments. I tried one at REI w 20 lbs. It felt good off the bat, rode well, moved with my body. BUT the lack of hip belt pockets, lack of webbing to attach aftermarket pockets was a deal breaker. For me, the point of UL hiking is to have everything handy while on the go. One needs reachable pockets to do that. Osprey lost a lot of opportunity with UL Hikers by failing to do that. It left open the door for cottage firms to take up the slack. Osprey’s UL offering, the Levity, is OK if you stay close to 20 lbs. FWIW, I have several wonderful Oprey packs, all better thought out and tested.

[Bill in Roswell]

Russ, I’m having the same issue. I’m only 5-7, but wide shoulders and chest. On my GG Kumo, the shoulder straps are awesome under same exact load. My hope is that things will feel better as the pads break in, as stiffer foam usually does. Our southern heat and humidity should aid that process! Other than that, I’m very happy with the Durston! Oh, I tried without frame w 22 lbs and it felt great! Would go w frame for 30 lbs in winter.

[Anonymous]

Was just having a passing thought to ask those having trouble with the shoulder straps . I wonder if removing the alloy frame would help with more and/or better body contour.  That’s if I understand the review.  Might make the load lifters a moot point but they’re not normally used with what would be a now frameless pack anyway.  Good gawd.  If FedEx would just get here……   I’ll shut up

[Russ W]

I hear what you’re saying but if you remove the frame and render the load-lifters moot, doesn’t that kind of defeat the purpose? I aleady have much lighter packs for that purpose.

 

[Anonymous]

I concur but at least it’s a doable option at least for lighter loads.  An advantage of having a removable frame or stays.

[Matthew / BPL]

My interest in this pack had to do with a lightweight frame for trips with weights that slightly exceed my comfort level with frameless packs.

I’m sending mine back to Drop. I’m pleased to report they pay for return shipping. My advice to anyone that is on the fence about trying this pack is to go for it.

[Matthew / BPL]

Props to Dan for being so active on here on BPL and in other communities. I have a lot of respect your analytical and innovative approach to product design. I do disagree with a couple of the decisions made here but I think they will be good decisions for other people.

[Russ W]

Ditto Matthew.  Dan has been extremely responsive to questions and comments, and props to  him for all he brings to  this community.  I worked up a sweat in the pack again this morning (humping the stairs). I plan to test the break-in theory and use for a weekender.  I also have a skinny and tall son that I’ll get to play around with it as well.

[Anonymous]

Not too shabby for a first pack.

Mine seems to be stuck in Pomona for the past four days.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

“In ‘A Message from the Designer, Dan Durston’ on drop.com Dan talks about “running vest-inspired shoulder strap pockets”. In all my running vests i can store water bottles (soft flasks) and according to the original description of the shoulder strap pockets they would’ve fit perfectly. Also, in the description exactly that is advertised. For me this was the main selling point. As per Dan’s argumentation: Bringing the weight (water) to the front hugely improves balance and negates leaning back. Why else have no cushion on the backpacks back. The backpack that i received does not have those shoulder strap pockets. The existing pockets fit my 6″ phone very well, but all my running vests fit my phone as well as 2 water bottles.”

Please note that I didn’t make the argument that bringing water weight forward improves balance, nor does the pack not have cushion in the back (it has an 8mm back pad). The shoulder straps are running vest inspired (as opposed to actually being running vest straps) because the goal was to bring some of the function that running vests have to pack straps. Running vests have a LOT of pockets and features on their straps and the goal here was never to replicate all of that, but rather to use that as an inspiration to bring some of the more useful functions to pack straps. Earlier prototypes of this pack did have top loading pockets where small bottles could fit, but the main goal was never water bottles but rather phone carrying ability (e.g. that story you reference as persuading your purchase makes no mention of storing water in the shoulder straps). I find that pockets big enough to be useful for bottles are too large and insecure to be ideal for phones and most other items, whereas side zipper pockets work much better so I opted for those. I think those add some really nice functionality for phones, sunglasses, sunscreen, etc, while nearly all competing packs don’t have any pockets here at all, but certainly if someone wants to carry water bottles up front then indeed this isn’t designed for that and those people are welcome to return the pack with free shipping.

“As others have stated on drop.com, weight is way above spec. Mine weighs 934g (33.0oz), which is 11% above the advertised 842g (29.7g)”

842g was the original spec for a S/M but yours is a M/L where the spec was 875g.  So yours is 6.7% over spec. That is unfortunate and my apologies. It appears this added weight is due to the webbing on the hipbelt and shoulder straps being longer than the prototypes, so this weight can be easily trimmed off, but if someone is unhappy with that they can return the pack with free return shipping. We have updated the specs now to accurately reflect the actual weight.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

With regard to comfort, it’s good to hear that most people are finding it comfortable. With something as personal as a pack it’s hard to come up with a shape/fit that is going to work for everyone. Aspects of the fit like the size of the hipbelt wings, width of the backpanel, distance between shoulder straps, shape of the shoulder straps etc are going to work better for some folks than others. With regard to pressure along the inside edge specifically, like most packs the shoulder straps are angled downward slightly were they attach to the pack to provide some downward slope that roughly matches the downwards slope on the wearers shoulder. How well this angle matches the slope of individual users shoulders is going to vary depending on individual fit, where I’m sure there are some people where the shape isn’t a good match. I think it works well for most people and should stretch/adapt somewhat with a bit of use to better match each user.

[Russ W]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments Dan. Regarding  the shoulder straps, I think I’m beginning to achieve some break-in along with playing with all of the straps.  It may not be a McHale but it’s a lot of pack for the $’s!

[Bill in Roswell]

Russ, I now have about 40 miles on mine hauling 25-26 lbs. No change in shoulder strap lifting on outside edge so far. Maybe in 200 miles? I’m a bit surprised that I don’t feel it that much now, but I may with a heavier winter load or longer section hikes.  However it’s not as comfortable as the softer foam, curvier shoulder pads of the GG Kumo. As for those with shoulder pocket concerns, I easily added a ZimmerBuilt zip pocket and a Z-Packs bottle pocket (which hides the original mesh pockets). Snap clips attach pockets to the webbing strap and a bit of thin shock cord hold the pocket bottom to the shoulder strap. The Zimmer pocket has an elastic loop on the back to hold the pocket snug to the shoulder strap.

[Jason McGrath]

You said something about a possible mod for your shoulder strap fit. Did you ever attempt anything?

[Erik Norseman]

Been enjoying this thread. I’ve had the DD40 for a month or so and spent 10 days/5 nights with it, hiking 8-12 hours a day in addition to 2 half day day hikes. So probably about 150km loaded so far.

I’m still having issues with the outer edge of the shoulder strap flaring up, and too much load on the inner edge of strap.

Anyone have any breakthroughs here yet? I really like everything about this pack but can’t manage enough comfort for multi-day trips.

[Geoff Caplan]

Can I ask people who have got a good few miles on this pack what they think of Dan’s choice of what I assume is the VX-21 X-Ply for the panel against the back?

How is it wearing? The ply stands proud of the main weave and I was wondering how it stands up to the constant rubbing against the back. And does the membrane hold up to this kind of treatment, or has it started to leak?

Also, do you find that the roughness of the fabric damages lightweight clothing on longer trips? The back of my current commercial pack tends to trash my merino base-layers…

Finally, how are the seams between the back panel and the side panels holding up? I do know one maker who tries to avoid X-Ply to X-Ply seams as he didn’t find that they lasted well.

One alternative is to use Oxford for the back panel. It’s a flat weave and very strong for seaming. But it will quickly start to leak so has its own disadvantages.

As always, it’s a question of tradeoffs. I’m about to make a pack, so this would be useful feedback.

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

Erik: Glad to hear you’re liking the pack, other than the shoulder strap fit issue. Sometimes that can occur from the way it’s adjusted so you could try loosening off all the straps and re-adjusting it from scratch (e.g. perhaps the load lifters are too tight) but it could also be that the straps simply are too wide for you. How wide they sit depends on a few factors including where your height fits into the size range of the pack (they sit wider on someone who is tall relative to the size of the pack) and the angle of your shoulders, and of course how wide is the right fit depends on your body width.

Geoff: We’ve never had a complaint about the X-Pac backpanel (whether for rubbing or for not lasting) and using this material in this application is fairly common (off the top of my head, Nashville Pack, SWD, and KS Ultralight are a few other companies who do so). That other maker that you refer to, are you saying they try to avoid X-Ply to X-Ply seams in general? Because that’s super common in X-Pack packs (e.g. ULA, SWD, Hanchor, Seek Outside etc all do so).

I highly doubt you’d ever see the “membrane” (inner plastic) leak because it’s inside the fabric where you’d have to wear through the outer 210D before you’re directly wearing on it. It’s possible that it’s more abrasive on a shirt than other options but we’ve never had someone report that. The only reports we get as it pertains to the backpanel are that it’s sweaty, which is an intentional design trade off. We don’t use mesh/padding/spacing here similar to quite a few other companies (e.g. SWD, HMG etc) because it’s lighter and moves the weight closer to your back, with the downside that in hot climates it is sweaty.

[Erik Norseman]

Hey Dan,

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I’ve tried a range of configurations with straps, from very loose to snugged down and have yet to find an answer. I find adjusting the fit through the day helps relieve discomfort in some areas, but creates other issues after a while.

I have a 16” back and purchased the S/M if that helps at all. I also have a broad chest for my height (5’7”), 40.5inches. Not sure if that gives you any other more specific suggestions.

I’m going to load the pack up again soon and ask my partner to help me evaluate how every strap sits/fits and really investigate the cause of pressure points or rubbing with her help. She may be able to spot things that I missed in the mirror.

[Geoff Caplan]

Dan

Many thanks for the feedback – I’ll give the X-Pac a go for the backpanel on the basis of your experience.

They very kindly sent me some offcuts for prototyping so it won’t cost me anything to experiment!

I’ll over-engineer the seams just to be on the safe side…

I think you made the right tradeoff avoiding the mesh – I don’t find that it works very well, and it adds weight.

[Author]

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