There’s no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes

In those conditions I am use a light base (often icebreaker 150wt tee) with a shakedry shell. base accumulates just 1g of water after 1h of z2 in <=50F. First 10 miles at 40F I am chilled,  but then my body warms up and the rest of the run is comfortable.  shakedry has been discontinued, but gorewear still has the r7 for sale. When it’s on and off drizzle, BD Alpine Start lets me dump a bit more heat but it is not up for real rain.

I have been using EE visp mitts.

Do you have a suggestion for a waterproof(ish) shell that is breathable with pit-zips and vents that won’t completely wet through in 4 hours?

If you are running in the rain, then you will be wet from both the inside and the outside. It cannot be avoided. Does it really matter whether the shell wets through?

As Mark points out, the best WPB fabric so far is ShakeDry, but it is discontinued. Some of the electro-spun membranes may be pretty good, but expect them to wet out in heavy or prolonged rain, then condense on the inside. That’s not exactly wet through, but it is wet on both sides, so the effect is similar.

So maybe focus on being warm first, then think about ventable rain garments second. They are always going to be a compromise, especially for running.

Polyester (fleece) and polypropylene perform well when damp. Brynje is more about “dry” than “warm”, although it does add a little warmth. Brynje with fleece or polypropylene over it can handle wide temperature ranges, so that’s a good place to start. I don’t think specific brands matter much. Almost any fleece or polypro will be fine, and the difference between $10 stuff and $200 stuff is mostly a couple of ounces. There can be some performance difference, but not much.

That said, I’ve been enjoying my Mountain Hardwear Airmesh Half Zip. It’s a nice combination of everything I want in a warm and highly breathable shirt, plus it has a zipper for venting heat. I also have an alpha direct hoodie, but it has no zipper and is often too warm. AD with a full zipper might be a good combination.

It’s hard to recommend a shell because they will all be compromises. Enlightened Equipment Visp has pit zips and a loose fit which promotes air circulation for ventilation. I like it, but it is expensive for a layer that you KNOW will be wet inside and out, mostly because of the way you use it.

Personally, I’d stay away from the tight fit that is currently in style for running; air circulation makes a very large difference in comfort.

A shell that goes on/off quickly is perhaps ideal, like Roger Caffin’s Mountain Poncho or The Packa. Timmermade has a “mega-zip” design that might be another option. Dutchware and LightHeart Gear have unique rain garments that do not fit normal classifications.

A lightweight yellow vest (like traffic vests) with a mesh back might be a good combination when it is not too cold. Mesh back to sweat freely, but a weather-resistant front to block some wind? There are many ways to cut up a pair of Tyvek coveralls for experimenting.

I suspect that the perfect rain garment has yet to be made.

Gloves are similar. I use fleece or polypropylene liners with a waterproof shell. I have several expensive GoreTex shells, but I most often use an $11 pair of motorcycle overmitts from Amazon because they pack small and work almost as well. Nitrile gloves are great, especially if your hands are smaller than XL (so that you can size up for a shell layer). There are several UL shells that are probably fine, such as the Visp mittens that Mark suggested. MLD, Black Diamond, REI, and Decathlon have similar shells.

Mittens will always be warmer than gloves.

I never found dressing for winter running to be much of a challenge. OK.. it can take some time to dial in the right combos for different weather conditions, but as opposed to hiking – the weight isn’t of great importance.

Economics and comfort plays a bigger role. I will probably go on 20 + runs for every backpacking trip I go on, so washing and other wear and tear takes its toll.
As far ans underwear and mid layers I try to use synthetics. They hold up better from repeated washing cycles and are more affordable in the first place. Smell isn’t an issue since they often go straight in the laundry bin after every use. I also try to use semi retired hiking clothes that maybe don’t fit me as well as they used to or has been superseded by lighter or otherwise improved gear. Brynje/mesh underwear would probably do a great job, but I save them for my hikes, ski trips and other more demanding situations. If it’s not too cold I use one or two synthetic base layers. If its colder I wear one or two base layers with a fleece mid layer.
I recommend wearing a buff/neck gaiter so you can open up your jacket to vent without getting too cold around the neck area. Might not be an issue for you, winters are quite a lot colder around here so it’s a must for me ;)

Shell layers will not keep you from getting wet, but it will slow down wind chill, evaporation and prevent cold rain from reaching your inner layers – all of which will aid to help you to retain body heat. Sweat will build up and the interior climate will become pretty damp and gross, but the your sweat starts out at body temp and won’t cool you down too much if you can slow down evaporation and avoid your warm sweat from being replaced by cold rain.
Price is again a driving factor for me. Windstopper / GTX infinium would often do a decent enough job, is typically more affordable and available in styles/cuts and colors (hi-viz and reflective details) better suited for running/work outs.

For gloves I think neoprene might work well for you. You will get wet anyways, and a suitable thickness of neoprene should do a good job of retaining enough heat. I haven’t tried this myself, it’s sub freezing around here most of the winter so it’s not something I’ve really thought of for my own use.

Thanks Mark.  Great ideas. I appreciate you for taking the time to respond. – Cheers

Thanks Bill.  Great ideas. I filled up my wish-list cart. Just have to convince the boss that I can spend the $. I appreciate you for taking the time to respond. – Cheers

Fleece can be very inexpensive; polypro only slightly more if you shop around. Military surplus on eBay is a good place to find inexpensive but high quality polypropylene.

The expensive bits are Brynje, which is probably worth the experiment, and WPB membranes, which probably are not. Buy WPB stuff on sale only, IMHO.

(I like Haakon’s paragraph about shells, above. The popular MontBell Versalite uses Gore-Tex Infinium, which is the “trick” that makes it one of the lightest-weight Gore-Tex rain jackets. It fits small, which isn’t ideal for ventilation, unless you can size up a size or two. Otherwise, it’s a very nice jacket.)

Also don’t forget Frogg Toggs for budget rain wear. It’s the original membrane-on-the-outside at one tenth of the price of ShakeDry and Outdry, which can never wet out. It has a loose fit which is good for ventilation, and it is cheap enough that you might not mind adding some vents with scissors and KamSnaps. You could even make a vest by cutting off the sleeves.

When you run, you will always produce more sweat than any WPB can pass through the membrane, so ventilation is more important than WPB for your purposes. Rapid on/off makes it easier to manage your temperature and comfort.

Good luck.

To double down on Bill’s observation…

No WP/B can keep up if you are sweating.  But, if you can avoid sweating by keep yourself at an appropriate energy level in cooler temps, you avoid sweating which me is zone 2 when <50F, zone 3-4 in <35F. At these levels Shakedry can keep up,  the old eVENT DVL  wasn’t quite that breathable, but would be able to clear the accumulated moisture when actively level dropped.

Second, the wet but comfortable / warm also can work. Mesh + light fleece, or one of the fabrics that is hydrophobic with large voids (Alpha Direct, MH AirMesh,  PowerGrid (e.g. Patagonia Expedition Weight) works well if you are doing a high energy run (say z3-4) in cold rain.  In the Bay Area “winter” I often do multi-hour runs in the rain with either AD or PowerGrid hoody, rain mitts, and rain hat.  If the wind is really blowing a light windshell or a vest made from Propore, aka DriDucks whose sleeves were removed when there was more duct tape than fabric :)