The SUL pillow height dilemma

I’ve thought about doing that, make my pad shorter and then have my pillow that much thicker.

My pillow has several layers of closed cell foam to create the desired thickness with some batting on top to make it comfortable.  I’d just add a couple more layers of closed cell foam.

Too bad you can’t find a bladder that’s that much thicker.  Then it wouldn’t add significant weight.

I asked gemini.  It suggested a sea to summit aeros pillow or a klymit pillow, but I don’t think either of those are what you want.

Hello Gary

Im a side sleeper with long term neck pain. My answer to the pillow-height problem was to cut 2 pieces of highish density foam – same eva foam I used for backpack hip belt – the same shape as the inflatable pillow (needed 2 for the height) .

I taped the 2 together along the top edge (I cut that edge straight). When I open them out, I have a luxurious sit pad as well ☺️.

It does mean buying more foam, tho. If you don’t already have spare.

Cheers

Can’t get much lighter than one of these underneath and a bit of velcro to hold it.  Durability may be a question mark

https://www.garagegrowngear.com/products/flex-air-ultralight-pillow

I’m 100% side sleeping and use the Sea to Summit Aeros premium and get a good sleep on it.

Fold the pad under the pillow, like one or 2 sections? I use a nemo switchback pad. Buy the regular length and cut it down.. but cut it long enough to fold a section or 2 for under pillow? Maybe?

Side sleeper here, I use my shoes, heel furthest from my nose, add a water blader if needed, then pillow on top of that. This combo works with the benefit of not needing to use any of my layers. Another option I’ve come to enjoy is using a lightweight drysack but that’s only when I’m already carrying one.

2 sections of foldable pad weigh about 2 oz and I don’t see how you can beat that really because anything else is going to be almost as heavy. Also adding height to the pillow will make it more wobbly and unstable. What’s more the 2 extra sections of foldable ccf is nice to have when using the pad to lounge around camp.

As I normally cowboy camp if the weather allows, I often put my tarp under my head to give it more height.

I’m in a similar boat and sleeping style.

I have an ikea open cell foam pillow, the same as what I actually use at night. I’ve cut it down to appx 20x20cm length and width, keeping the original height. I then cored out the middle, where I put my lightweight foam roller that is a few cm in diameter. Sized to work when sleeping on my CCF torso pad(s) (I have too many…). Its worked fairly well (last two years), only downside is that the foam roller is actually too stiff and I can feel it through the open cell pad. So I’m probably going to move on from this pillow system, back to an inflatable.

I’ve variably put other things under pillows to raise them up. When you are SUL you don’t have many other items though, and I’d argue that using a puffy in a pillow is quite inefficient use of its insulating potential. I guess most nights are warmer than your minimum so you can get away with it.

I guess in bear and/or rodent country you can’t really do this, but a pack of dehydrated food might work well? Your ditty bag, depending on what’s in it? I’ve put my book underneath it to give another inch (yes sometimes SUL… but with a novel to read :-). I’ve thought about using a pot but it comes up with the same stiffness problem as the above mentioned foam roller.

Another option could be trying to lighten the top couple of sections of your CCF pad. Take off the top corners, narrow it a few inches from each edge, possibly cut out some holes. It will probably still have plenty of structure cored out even 50% to support your head via your pillow. As that CCF is still attached to the rest of your mat it won’t go floating away from you in the night, which is a problem with sometimes trying to bulk out pillows with random items. With all the holes, if your pillow has a cord attachment, then that would become easy.

There are inflatables that are higher than the 10cm of that Zenbivy, though. Exped and S2S both have options. I bought the new Exped Ultra pillow in regular, haven’t tried it in action yet (my daughter used it a couple of weekends ago and loved it with an Exped 3R mat, so I’m going to get another).

When on my side I have a good 8” ergonomic pillow at home, with a cut out for when I’m on my back I need half that.

My backpacking solution is to have 2 pillows. One an inflatable that gets to about 4” and atop that is my stuff sack with down puffy. When I change positions during I use or don’t use the puffy depending on whether I’m lying side or back. It works well and I don’t wake with a crimped neck.

My solution isn’t SUL but sounds like you might be toying with a similar approach albeit with lighter weight elements.

I use a Goosefeet Gear pillow. It has a sleeve for an air bladder. I insert a down pad from a  2025′ ZB pillow along with a mostly deflated air bag. Fully inflated air bags alone are too stiff. Down collapses. Not the perfect system. The air moves around. The airbag really needs two chambers.  It’s work in progress.

” Fully inflated air bags alone are too stiff. Down collapses. Not the perfect system.”

yeah.  A synthetic batting intended for a chair cushion works pretty good.  I got a chair cushion from somewhere and use it’s batting, but I’m sure you could buy it somewhere.

Synthetic batting, like apex, for insulation, collapses too much.  Which is good for it’s intended application, insulation, but not so good as a cushion.

Pillow on left, cover on right.  There are 4 layers of blue CCF, and 2 layers of white CCF that I added later.  Thin black nylon to cover them.  Then the outer cover is khaki supplex.  3.5 ounces total.

I doubt you have extra clothing in such a lightweight system, but if you do, a folded layer of clothing (like a polartec alpha fleece) lifts up a pillow a decent amount.  But a 2nd pillow works wonders, which I believe was mentioned above.

I picked up a Big Sky bladder. While it barely fits in the GF pillow stuff sack, it works somewhat like a trampoline. The sides give it some extra height. It has a twist style valve which I find easier to adjust. The picture shows it with a cover which I didn’t buy

As a side sleeper with quite wide shoulders I have a similar issue despite not usually doing the torso pad thing. Best solution I have found is using the Schnozzel pump sack that came with my Exped pad and also doubles as a dry bag pack liner for a third duty. I inflate a big sky pillow, stick that in there, underneath the inflatable I put my rain gear and anything else in compressible I have. On top of the inflatable pillow i fold up an alpha fleece or a puffy. I usually take 2 light fleeces and a wind shirt instead of a puffy, so I wear one to bed and the other can go in the pillow. if it’s cold enough to need 2 fleeces inside my quilt I’m not so worried about pillow optimization. Anyway then I close up the pump sack and put the whole thing inside a merino buff. Again if it’s so cold I’m wearing the buff on my head, it’s not essential. Also works with other dry bag pack liners.

Big Sky with the Schnozzel for the win. Tried it yesterday. It feels almost like a real pillow.

what I hate about air pillows is they feel unstable, my head will roll around.  Sort of like balancing an upside down pendulum.  Same with many air mats

I got something, maybe a big sky and felt that.  I also tried the bladder from a box of wine.

The wine bladder made me dizzy but really, I think it was the wine. Certainly the wrong shape. Air needs to be let out to cuddle the head which leads to shape shifting. The design of the Big Sky alleviates this to some degree. When packed as Adam suggests and with your head laying in the middle, side to side air transfer is limited. I find it much more tolerable than my pre 26′ ZB pillow. As a possible answer to the original question, it’s also taller. Not perfect. I find it an acceptable compromise.

I got a second opinion.

i’m still searching for my pillow. side sleeper as well but i have a bad neck and if it’s not supported correctly i can’t sleep or if i do i wake up with a horribly stiff neck and it just gets worse until i get home and sleep on a real pillow for several nights….. for pillows i’ve given up on the SUL…. at least until (if ) i can resolve my neck muscle issues….

it is possible to find a lightweight pillow that will support your neck like a number of solutions above.

Not saying anything new here but the Big Sky pillow with a buff pulled over it works extremely well for me as a side sleeper with diagnosed degenerative disc disease in C7. It works so well that I take it when I’m traveling to an Airbnb/hotel in case their pillows are not a good match for my anatomy.

I’ve also had good luck with Exped’s pillows. Those are my second favorite.

My head does not roll off of either those pillows.

YMMV. I suspect pillows are as individual as shoes and packs.

I had bad luck with my Exped (and an adolescent Rottweiler). No slight on the Exped. I would give it high marks and considered buying another one. It was low on my priority list. Zenbivy gave me a pre25′ pillow that I thought was well designed. All except the bladder.

The Big Sky with its exaggerated shape makes a big difference. What it lacks on its own is neck support. Perhaps neck support is best achieved separately? Using the stuff sack method, I find that easier to do. Perhaps a section of pool noodle or a small piece of memory foam for those needing more support?

The downfall of the stuff sack is that on warm nights, it’s not very breathable.

+1 Big Sky UL Dream Sleeper with a buff.

Side, back or stomach sleeping, has worked for a decade.  I had to replace after 8 years.

I like that it says “45.5g +/- 2SD 1.3g (1.6oz +/- 0.05oz)”

it says how accurate the weight measurement is to two standard deviations

(only an engineer would appreciate this, sorry : )